Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 2x01 - "Strange Energies"

[fireproof78]

Reality.

I don't need Trek to always be hopeful but I do need to walk away not horribly disappointed in the writing choices.

Mileage.

 

[cooleddie74]

Exactly. To each their own.

 

[Amaris]

But you resort to bringing up relatively serious examples which have nothing to do with unilaterally power-washing an alien building while their representatives are in the process of selecting their subspace number. Let’s take 30 seconds to repeat that premise a few times.

You are attempting to straighten a slinky.

You are free to do so, but other folks like the slinky as it is, and for its original intended purpose. As for Mariner, she didn't do that unilaterally, she had direct but unofficial support after having worked it out with her Captain.

I think you need to adjust your mindset: Lower Decks is Sgt. Bilko, not Saving Private Ryan.

Now, we don’t really care what happened in the 2260s or the 2280s because the Roddenberry Box wasn’t in place back then. The year is c. 2381, while VGR ended c. 2377. Lower Decks is riffing on TNG, and Piller was in fact Roddenberry-boxed by Berman’s decree, even if they were able to loosen some restrictions by allowing more serious conflict, often involving Starfleet personnel leaving Starfleet in the end. McMahan can’t do that in a comedy, so he’s cheating silliness into the setting rather than looking for humor in the basics.

You're wanting a type of humor that Lower Decks is not offering because it was not intended to offer that kind of humor you feel more comfortable with, and that's okay, but I don't think it's going to happen for you.

 

[JRoss]

I loved the episode. Such pretty and cool graphics. Electric, fiery energy in place of Ransom's neck, rainbow lasers, Kirby Krackle.

 

[Noname Given]

Starfleet can't be ALL or even 90% fully competent and well-rounded Captains. Look at the Admirals. Those duplicitous liars and co-conspirators came from somewhere and that somewhere was the lower ranks.

Hell look at Captain Harriman from Star Trek Generations or Captain Esteban from Star Trek III: The Search For Spock. Neither one of those examples come across as overly competent in their positions.

 

[cooleddie74]

Starfleet just likes to pretend it's the best and the brightest.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Starfleet just likes to pretend it's the best and the brightest.

Starfleet PR in overdrove.

 

[cooleddie74]

And before he went all Sheer ****ing Hubris on Starfleet Command Picard was one of the poster children for the ideal Cadet and officer. He embodied what Starfleet was allegedly all about and the hard work, honesty and dedication to duty that Starfleet liked to depict as symbols of valor.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

And before he went all Sheer ****ing Hubris on Starfleet Command Picard was one of the poster children for the ideal Cadet and officer. He embodied what Starfleet was allegedly all about and the hard work, honesty and dedication to duty that Starfleet liked to depict as symbols of valor.

Picard ignoring his weakness and, basically, his humanity for decades finally caught up with him.

 

[fireproof78]

It usually does.

 

[Amaris]

Picard ignoring his weakness and, basically, his humanity for decades finally caught up with him.

Yep. Humans can only be super human for a little while, and there's always a cost.

I mean, except for the Superhumans, but that's an augment argument I don't want to get into.

 

[Commander Troi]

yeah, I know it’s him but it doesn’t particularly sound like him to me. Had the same issue with the Q cameo last year.

I'm wondering if it's just the fact that some men's voices get a little deeper with age.

 

[cooleddie74]

James Earl Jones doesn't sound exactly like he did in 1977 when he recorded dialogue for Darth Vader in the original Star Wars and you can tell when you watch scenes of Rogue One where Vader speaks, even though the two films are literally set minutes apart.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My voice has gotten so deep, a woman at work calls me "White Barry White".

 

[cooleddie74]

You can really hear Jones has aged when you listen to his dialogue after Krennic mentions the Death Star's "remarkable potential."

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[jackoverfull]

I'm wondering if it's just the fact that some men's voices get a little deeper with age.

not really: in Picard Riker still sounds like Riker and I’m sure Q will still sound like Q, even if older versions of their characters.

It’s just the over the top delivery that gives me this impression, nothing more.

 

[Sarcastic Vulcan Salute]

But you resort to bringing up relatively serious examples which have nothing to do with unilaterally power-washing an alien building while their representatives are in the process of selecting their subspace number. Let’s take 30 seconds to repeat that premise a few times.
...
Again, serious examples in the absence of silly examples. What you need is Starfleet officers in the TNG era acting like Lwaxana Troi or Q. Jumping on a fellow officer with a bat’leth. Tinkering with someone’s cybernetic implants. Agents of whimsical chaos, not people with issues.

Seems like a case of moving goalposts.

Assertion: There are no chaotic good characters in live action Trek.
Reply: Yes there are, and here's a bunch of them
Moved goalpost: Well, those are serious examples of chaotic good characters.

On top of it, the moved goalpost doesn't even make sense. Of course examples from serious Trek will likely be serious. And has been pointed out, Mariner did not go rogue in asking for the chance to powerwash the city.

Putting aside the question of whether "chaotic good" is a useful label for characters in this context, the reality is that Star Trek characters' personal moralities align with Starfleet rules & regs 90+ percent of the time, and the second that they don't, the characters follow their own morality. I don't think I can think of a main Starfleet character from any of the broadcast series who has not been complicit in violating orders, laws, the Prime Directive, etc. The TOS crew minus Spock did so to save Spock in ST3, and to save Kirk and McCoy in ST6. The entirety of ST9 was about the TNG crew rejecting lawfully given orders, and we also saw the TNG crew reject orders to stay away from the Borg in ST8. The DS9 crew included Sisko's complicity in the murder of a Romulan senator on the one hand and its undercutting the biowarfare against the Founders. On Voyager, even Tuvok, one of the most "by the book" characters there could be, was willing to shortchange Federation regulations if it meant potentially getting Voyager home quicker.

In terms of lighter fare, it seems like Barclay fits the bill. And the distinction you make between agents of chaos rather than people with issues doesn't make sense to me because Mariner is clearly both.

Finally, part of the premise of Lower Decks is that the people on board are second- and third-stringers. So as such, you are not going to have the same paragons of virtue and competence as on the other shows. So even if it were true that none of the other shows had chaotic good characters, and even if we accept the premise that none of the other shows has characters acting chaotic good in a whimsical way, it doesn't matter. This one does. There's nothing inherent about the previous depictions of a portion of the upper echelon of Starfleet that contradicts the notion that elsewhere Starfleet doesn't operate in the same way.

 

[Vger23]

You can really hear Jones has aged when you listen to his dialogue after Krennic mentions the Death Star's "remarkable potential."

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He did a wonderful narration in the pre-game portion of the Field of Dreams MLB game just a week ago...but you could definitely tell that his voice has changed.

 

[Kelso]

I haven't posted about this on the board before (after twenty years here I didn't want to suddenly turn into "self-promotion guy") but with new episodes dropping I thought I might as well drop a link here and there. Anyway, over this past year I have been producing and co-hosting a Star Trek podcast for the ESO Podcast Network. It has been a much-needed creative lifeline for me with all of Felt Nerdy's stage shows and appearances cancelled for obvious reasons (my wife and I are a puppetry/performance team who appear at conventions).

I know, I know, you can't throw a rock on the internet without hitting a Star Trek podcast... but this one is very meaningful for me. Aside from giving me an opportunity to produce audio, artwork, music, etc. during the pandemic, it has been an absolute joy to set aside an hour to talk about Star Trek with my always charming wife and some incredibly intelligent and entertaining friends.

So, if you happen to be in the market for that sort of thing, you can fine the latest episode of Earth Station Trek, discussing "Strange Energies," on your favorite podcast platform... or here.

 

[Super Grover]

I enjoyed it, but I give it a 7, because it felt off without Boimler there.