Bring back Star Trek: Enterprise

[Dan the man]

Why is it that these cascading shitstorms happen during the few hours I'm away living in reality?

So we have this

and this

and this

so I think all of us here at TrekBBS understand now that you hate Abrams, Kurtzman, and CBS All Access Trek. Because, you know, pretty much all of your posts have indicated this, no matter what the actual thread was discussing.

So we get it. Ad nauseum, we get it. So if you keep doing it, I'll treat it as spamming and you'll get a warning. So I suggest you start a single, dedicated thread for your hate, somewhere OTHER than the ENT forum, since your AbKurtzAllAccess hate has nothing to do with this forum.


Quiet, you, you're not helping. I'm addressing our AbKurtzAA anti-fan Dan the Man.

So Dan, but then you said this

which appears to reference that other thread where you exchanged unpleasantries with Sci.

But here, well, this is a very insulting post. It's flaming. So you do get a warning for flaming. Comments to PM.

Please review the board rules and be kind enough to follow our administrator's First Holy Law, "Don't be a dick." Thanks.

***

So hey, back to talking about Enterprise!

Actually you gas lighter and I sulted me first because you disagreed with my criticism of JJ Abrams and Kurtzman, but go ahead; I know you've been eagerly contacting all your little minions and fellow cultists to immediately witch hunt me out. The sad part is you're threatened by a cadet who just joined and it says "newbie". Lmfao!
Is your position so weak? I challenge you to let free speech roam this quadrant. You're not more advanced than me.

 

[Dan the man]

Why is it that these cascading shitstorms happen during the few hours I'm away living in reality?

So we have this

and this

and this

so I think all of us here at TrekBBS understand now that you hate Abrams, Kurtzman, and CBS All Access Trek. Because, you know, pretty much all of your posts have indicated this, no matter what the actual thread was discussing.

So we get it. Ad nauseum, we get it. So if you keep doing it, I'll treat it as spamming and you'll get a warning. So I suggest you start a single, dedicated thread for your hate, somewhere OTHER than the ENT forum, since your AbKurtzAllAccess hate has nothing to do with this forum.


Quiet, you, you're not helping. I'm addressing our AbKurtzAA anti-fan Dan the Man.

So Dan, but then you said this

which appears to reference that other thread where you exchanged unpleasantries with Sci.

But here, well, this is a very insulting post. It's flaming. So you do get a warning for flaming. Comments to PM.

Please review the board rules and be kind enough to follow our administrator's First Holy Law, "Don't be a dick." Thanks.

***

So hey, back to talking about Enterprise!

Lol you have a silly baby Yoda from that awful mandalorian show. This is a star trek group not star wars btw. Who made you admin?
I like how after 1 day you people have all gathered round to persecute me. Plenty of star trek episodes speak of planets like this. Authoritarian.
Ironic you people actually call yourselves progressives and Democrats. You're nothing but communists.

 

[Dan the man]

Oh no I bad mouthed CBS all access and abrams....are you F'ing kidding me?????
You poor excuse for star trek fans. You're not true fans and you know it. Go watch lower decks and game of thrones geeks.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

I signed it, it needs to ignore the series finale though, Kelvin timeline, and anything from cbs all acess.

Warning for spamming. Comments to PM.

Actually you gas lighter and I sulted me first because you disagreed with my criticism of JJ Abrams and Kurtzman, but go ahead; I know you've been eagerly contacting all your little minions and fellow cultists to immediately witch hunt me out. The sad part is you're threatened by a cadet who just joined and it says "newbie". Lmfao!
Is your position so weak? I challenge you to let free speech roam this quadrant. You're not more advanced than me.

Warning for willfully declining to follow the Moderator's caution. Comments to PM.

Please stop. Thank you.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Lol you have a silly baby Yoda from that awful mandalorian show. This is a star trek group not star wars btw. Who made you admin?
I like how after 1 day you people have all gathered round to persecute me. Plenty of star trek episodes speak of planets like this. Authoritarian.
Ironic you people actually call yourselves progressives and Democrats. You're nothing but communists.

Warning for an impressive round of trolling; posting 3 times in a row, twice; and inappropriate off-topic political references. Comments to PM.

***

If there's anybody left who wants to talk about Enterprise, please get this poor thread back on track. Thanks.

 

[Damian]

posting 3 times in a row

I do recall newbie's don't have the ability to edit prior comments, which might explain the multiple posts. Everything else I agree on. The poster is obviously itching for a fight, but just wanted to throw that out there in the interest of total fairness.

Probably irrelevant as I see the poster is no longer among us (hmm, I wonder why ).

As for Enterprise coming back, I think that ship sailed a long, long time ago. There was a time I really wanted to see it return for a 5th season. I thought it finally found its footing in seasons 3 and especially 4 and things were looking up. And I'm glad to see Enterprise gets a bit more love from fans nowadays than it did when it first came on the air. I always liked that Enterprise tried to find that right balance between making it look futuristic from today, yet find ways to make it less futuristic than the original series...not an easy thing to do when you think about it. It's one complaint I had about Discovery. I never thought Discovery found a good balance, it looks way more futuristic than the original series. Yet Enterprise showed us it can be done.

But, all that being said, it's been 16 years now. I don't think you could pick up a season 5 right after 4 now. At best you could restart an Enterprise several years later (you could probably fudge it to 7 or 8 years later but the actors are all 16 years older so you have to account for that).

And let's be honest. Paramount is all about the new Star Trek shows. I doubt they are at all inclined to pick up a spin-off that ended over 15 years ago now. And like it or not Paramount is the owner and what they say goes.

As an avid novel reader, my best hope is to see new Enterprise novels come out in the future (that have continued the Enterprise story line beyond the end of the series).

It's a shame. Enterprise ended before it's time. We were so close to the Romulan War, one major event in Star Trek history that had such a great impact on the Star Trek universe (leading to the formation of the Federation) yet never seen on screen.

Enterprise does have one honor no other series has, however. It's the only series that is canon in both the prime universe and the Kelvin universe.

 

[valkyrie013]

If they did bring it back, the Enterprise would have a bridge window and glowing nacelle endcaps .. Probably totally redesigned for a 4k audience.. Blah..

Only way for original crew is animated, or a new crew with deaged cameos .. Crew is old now.

 

[FederationHistorian]

A question for the ages.

TPTB want to make Disco look good, both with aesthetics and character development. And to justify S31 being well known by the time of Disco.

All Trek roads right now run through Disco, even an ENT revival.

But, all that being said, it's been 16 years now. I don't think you could pick up a season 5 right after 4 now. At best you could restart an Enterprise several years later (you could probably fudge it to 7 or 8 years later but the actors are all 16 years older so you have to account for that).

And let's be honest. Paramount is all about the new Star Trek shows. I doubt they are at all inclined to pick up a spin-off that ended over 15 years ago now. And like it or not Paramount is the owner and what they say goes.

As an avid novel reader, my best hope is to see new Enterprise novels come out in the future (that have continued the Enterprise story line beyond the end of the series).

It's a shame. Enterprise ended before it's time. We were so close to the Romulan War, one major event in Star Trek history that had such a great impact on the Star Trek universe (leading to the formation of the Federation) yet never seen on screen.

Enterprise does have one honor no other series has, however. It's the only series that is canon in both the prime universe and the Kelvin universe.

Just make it the time travel show TPTB wanted in the first place. Want to see the Romulan War or various ideas that were pitched for S5? Then time travel drops a member of the crew off in an important battle on a damaged ship, or they revisit certain events through a mind meld. Want to see Archer as Federation President or what the rest of the crew are doing after Enterprise? Drop them off a decade or two later. Something out of place in the timeline? Let them be the temporal version of NCIS. Want to fix the finale? Have a future version of the NX-01 travel back and fix that.

 

[Dukhat]

As I mentioned earlier before Dan the schmuck derailed the thread, I feel that it's utterly pointless to 'bring back' any show from the Berman era. If they actually brought back ENT, its fans would do nothing but complain about how different it is, because they think that the producers will just pick up right where the show left off. The people in charge are different, production values are different, writing is different, and the characters will be different. Just like in PIC, we see Picard and he's extremely different from his portrayal in TNG, for better or worse. Not that I think the rumor about Archer coming back is in any way true, but if Bakula did play the character again, he will be completely different from his portrayal in ENT. Is that what ENT fans want? Because I was a TNG fan and I'm not at all pleased by how Picard is portrayed in PIC.

 

[fireproof78]

As I mentioned earlier before Dan the schmuck derailed the thread, I feel that it's utterly pointless to 'bring back' any show from the Berman era. If they actually brought back ENT, its fans would do nothing but complain about how different it is, because they think that the producers will just pick up right where the show left off. The people in charge are different, production values are different, writing is different, and the characters will be different. Just like in PIC, we see Picard and he's extremely different from his portrayal in TNG, for better or worse. Not that I think the rumor about Archer coming back is in any way true, but if Bakula did play the character again, he will be completely different from his portrayal in ENT. Is that what ENT fans want? Because I was a TNG fan and I'm not at all pleased by how Picard is portrayed in PIC.

Honestly, I do not believe any fan (myself included) really thinks it all the way through of wanting a beloved show coming back. Certainly I watched a similar hope springth eternal style attitude with Firefly and even held out hope for a bit. But, you are on to something with the point that even if they bring it back it will not be the same. Attitudes have shifted, culture has shifted, actors have more experience or have moved on from acting. They will want to change things up if ENT is brought back; fans will want it to largely stay the same and hold on to the familiar tingles of nostalgia.

 

[Damian]

As I mentioned earlier before Dan the schmuck derailed the thread, I feel that it's utterly pointless to 'bring back' any show from the Berman era. If they actually brought back ENT, its fans would do nothing but complain about how different it is, because they think that the producers will just pick up right where the show left off. The people in charge are different, production values are different, writing is different, and the characters will be different. Just like in PIC, we see Picard and he's extremely different from his portrayal in TNG, for better or worse. Not that I think the rumor about Archer coming back is in any way true, but if Bakula did play the character again, he will be completely different from his portrayal in ENT. Is that what ENT fans want? Because I was a TNG fan and I'm not at all pleased by how Picard is portrayed in PIC.

Yeah, I tend to agree. I think if Enterprise were somehow brought back, it would be dramatically different from what Enterprise was. Whether people like them or not, the current showrunners have their own vision for Star Trek which shows in Discovery and Picard.

There were things I liked about Picard and things I didn't like. I also follow the post-Nemesis novel continuity (much like the post-Enterprise novel continuity) and I have to admit I prefer the novel continuity over the Picard continuity. The Federation went through hell and back in the novels as well, with a devastating Borg attack and Section 31 shenanigans. But the Federation in the novel continuity's 2387 is in a much better place. Picard is still captain of the Enterprise, doing what he does best, the Federation is moving in a positive direction again and while there are many challenges it seems to fit the mold of a positive future better than Picard does.

It's the one thing that attracted me to Star Trek in the first place. One of the few futuristic shows that depicted a positive future. Doesn't mean it's perfect. Just that we are forever learning and getting to a better place with each step. The concern I have sometimes about Discovery and Picard is they tend to depict things more bleakly. I'm hoping that changes with future episodes.

 

[fireproof78]

It's the one thing that attracted me to Star Trek in the first place. One of the few futuristic shows that depicted a positive future. Doesn't mean it's perfect. Just that we are forever learning and getting to a better place with each step. The concern I have sometimes about Discovery and Picard is they tend to depict things more bleakly. I'm hoping that changes with future episodes.

It's still positive but the darker parts are a little bit darker.

If ENT came back and moves in to the Romulan War territory how dark would that get?

 

[Damian]

They will want to change things up if ENT is brought back; fans will want it to largely stay the same and hold on to the familiar tingles of nostalgia.

Yeah, and that's the big elephant in the room. It's not like we'll just have season 5, picking up where Terra Prime left off. Even if they decided to go all in and preserve the production design/alien designs for Enterprise, tried to make it look as authentic to the original as possible, there's no denying the fact that the actors themselves have aged 16 years. Even if you cheat a bit and make it 10 years after "Terra Prime," a lot has happened in those 10 years such as a war and the formation of the Federation that the stories wouldn't be all that recognizable.

I was upset that UPN cancelled Enterprise when they did. I thought the show was finally in a groove and things were looking up when the rug was pulled out from under them. But the time to bring back Enterprise was before 2010. That's when you could have had a real continuation. Sadly too much time has passed. I'm not even sure all the actors would be on board at this point. Some, sure. But I'm sure some would pass at this point.

 

[Damian]

It's still positive but the darker parts are a little bit darker.

If ENT came back and moves in to the Romulan War territory how dark would that get?

It's not so much that Star Trek has never gone to dark places. DS9 certainly had its share. But the Federation at the end of the day moved forward. Occasionally they'd take 2 or 3 steps back, but there were enough good people that put the Federation back on the right course.

With Picard the Federation seemed particularly bleak and depressing. And I had a hard time buying into a brooding Picard. Granted he seemed to find his way more as the season wore on. But I just have a hard time buying him as a quitter, like he was up to the point the show started.

And I had some difficulty with the whole Section 31 angle in Discovery. The whole point of Section 31 was to be in the shadows, kind of defeats the purpose to be out in the open like they were. Even STID pushed the envelope a bit on 31, though at least things were still top secret there. Section 31 seems incompatible with the Federation in general, but as a shadowy extra-legal organization I can buy into it. In Enterprise, at least, it was still a shadowy cabal.

 

[fireproof78]

It's not so much that Star Trek has never gone to dark places. DS9 certainly had its share. But the Federation at the end of the day moved forward. Occasionally they'd take 2 or 3 steps back, but there were enough good people that put the Federation back on the right course.

With Picard the Federation seemed particularly bleak and depressing. And I had a hard time buying into a brooding Picard. Granted he seemed to find his way more as the season wore on. But I just have a hard time buying him as a quitter, like he was up to the point the show started.

And I had some difficulty with the whole Section 31 angle in Discovery. The whole point of Section 31 was to be in the shadows, kind of defeats the purpose to be out in the open like they were. Even STID pushed the envelope a bit on 31, though at least things were still top secret there. Section 31 seems incompatible with the Federation in general, but as a shadowy extra-legal organization I can buy into it. In Enterprise, at least, it was still a shadowy cabal.

But, again, they righted themselves at the end which is more my point. We can discuss the merits of each plot points further in those sections, but my biggest point is that the darkness doesn't win. As bleak as it is, as difficult as it is, it doesn't get to BSG style nihilism, no matter what people might think. And, I think if the Romulan War is put on screen it will get very bleak and depressing because that is what war does to you.

 

[Damian]

But, again, they righted themselves at the end which is more my point. We can discuss the merits of each plot points further in those sections, but my biggest point is that the darkness doesn't win. As bleak as it is, as difficult as it is, it doesn't get to BSG style nihilism, no matter what people might think. And, I think if the Romulan War is put on screen it will get very bleak and depressing because that is what war does to you.

The Romulan War did get bleak for Earth in the novels. Earth's allies abandoned us when the Romulans developed technology to take over ships leaving Earth alone, until the Battle of Cheron. Things got so desperate Earth actually asked the Klingon Empire for help (and you can guess how that turned out). Though the difference was that Earth didn't seem to give up its values. As bleak as things looked, the character of Starfleet didn't change.

With Picard it seemed what made the Federation what it was is lost. That's what bothers me a bit about Picard.

 

[fireproof78]

The Romulan War did get bleak for Earth in the novels. Earth's allies abandoned us when the Romulans developed technology to take over ships leaving Earth alone, until the Battle of Cheron. Things got so desperate Earth actually asked the Klingon Empire for help (and you can guess how that turned out). Though the difference was that Earth didn't seem to give up its values. As bleak as things looked, the character of Starfleet didn't change.

With Picard it seemed what made the Federation what it was is lost. That's what bothers me a bit about Picard.

I don't see it that way but that's completely fair.

 

[FederationHistorian]

If they actually brought back ENT, its fans would do nothing but complain about how different it is, because they think that the producers will just pick up right where the show left off. The people in charge are different, production values are different, writing is different, and the characters will be different. Just like in PIC, we see Picard and he's extremely different from his portrayal in TNG, for better or worse. Not that I think the rumor about Archer coming back is in any way true, but if Bakula did play the character again, he will be completely different from his portrayal in ENT. Is that what ENT fans want? Because I was a TNG fan and I'm not at all pleased by how Picard is portrayed in PIC.

Of course they’ll be different. That’s the point. We want a new take on the characters. Even Kirk from the tv shows and the movies are different from each other. Not as radically different as Picard is in PIC when compared with TNG and the movies, but still different. So, I would be open to seeing what Archer’s portrayal would be like in the Kurtzman era.

Also, I remember watching an interview with Linda Park explaining how she wanted to play more no nonsense, womanly characters after the childlike, easily scared Hoshi. I would love to see what Hoshi Sato would be like now that Linda Park has all these years of acting experience under her belt, and what it adds to the Hoshi character. Same with the rest of the characters; I’m sure they would offer their input on how their respective characters should be in a revival if asked. Obviously, they would have to be interested in participating first. But I never hear that the majority of the cast is uninterested in a return. If some of them aren’t interested in coming back, then create new characters to fill the void.

The lessons as to what hampered ENT during its original run have been learned. If the revival manages to avoid those mistakes, it will be seen positively.

Honestly, I do not believe any fan (myself included) really thinks it all the way through of wanting a beloved show coming back. Certainly I watched a similar hope springth eternal style attitude with Firefly and even held out hope for a bit.

I would say thought is indeed given to revivals by fans. Sometime the revival lives up to fan expectations (like with Lucifer on Netflix), and sometime the revival doesn’t (like with Designated Survivor on Netflix).

If ENT came back and moves in to the Romulan War territory how dark would that get?

Depends on how the story is told. Do you tell the story by following the crew through all of the major events, like DS9 and the Dominion War? Or do you tell the story through a combination of flashbacks - because the characters are suffering PTSD from the conflict many years later, or forced to revisit those events through a mind meld - and character growth that stem from the conflict that was only a decade or so ago? The latter being something that DS9 and even Disco haven’t really done, and would be completely brand new to the Star Trek franchise.

But the time to bring back Enterprise was before 2010. That's when you could have had a real continuation.

Actually, now is the time to bring them back. I think some fans are too hung up on what was missed out on S5, and ignoring the possibility that there will be better stories to be told if given the chance. Am I to believe that, if Coto was hypothetically brought back on board for either a continuation of Enterprise set years later or an ENT sequel show, that he could not find a way to adapt those planned S5 stories to older versions of the NX-01 crew? It might be better if Coto has a clean slate to work with and not have to worry about the additional task of trying to fix a show that was suffering a steady decline in viewership for years.

The only reason to not revive ENT is in Coto is not a part of the revival from the beginning.

 

[fireproof78]

And money. Money is a huge factor in bringing this series back. It's a niche market within a niche property. Even if Coto comes back can the cost be justified?

 

[Australis]

Let me float a slightly different idea.

What Admiral Archer Did Next.

Might be the NX-01 with a new crew, might be a PIC style thing. What I would really like to see is... the ads for ENT said of Archer, "This was Kirk's hero". I'd like to see that story, that we didn't quite get in ENT. With the advances in storytelling, it could be quite good.