CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

So, you're saying it's Star Trek?

 

So was TOS dystopian in "The Cloud Minders?" How about TNG in "Justice," "Angel One," "The Vengeance Factor"?

What about "Patterns of Force"? Dystopia? Or something for Kirk and crew to fix? DS9 "Battle Lines," "Far Beyond the Stars," "The Quickening"?

 

I believe “Paradise Lost” was intentionally dystopian. It was the whole point of the episode, really, hence the title.

 

There's a difference between making an occasional dark episode and a totally dystopian universe.

 

I couldn't disagree more. If it had been about dystopia, then the security guards on every corner would have stayed forever.

The whole point of the episode is simply that the characters realize that the Federation isn't a utopia after all. You can interpret the title "Paradise Lost" to mean that it's about dystopia only if you think that Adam and Eve being expelled from the Garden of Eden means that they were sent to live in a dystopia. That would be a very warped view of the term, because it would mean that all mortal existence is inherently dystopian, in which case it would be an utterly meaningless term.

 

And nothing in Picard or Disco has stayed dark. They’ve come back to the (relative) norm at the end of each season.

Therefore, dystopia it is not.

 

Nope...just crap.

But thank goodness they're not dystopian crap.

 

Hey, crap is an opinion. Not one I agree with. But it’s better than calling it something it isn’t.

 

dystopia, n. a world in which Alex Peters grifts never go away

 

Not in the Federation. Thus the whole Fenris Rangers bit.

There was more than one? No, there was not. There was a person who was struggling with past pain.

The person who committed a mutiny went to jail.

So, Star Trek? Because that's happened before, and never has gone through, just like in this show.

So, no, it doesn't qualify under that definition of dystopia because it is doing things Star Trek has always done. Shown aspects of human nature, both dark and light, and how to become better. Hell, I might not give a lot of credit to Axanar but the entire Prelude thing was about a war and how it could cause them to give in to fear of the Klingons. It's not dystopian to struggle when faced with so much pain and death.

 

VOY S1 Ep 5 "Phage."

TOS S1 Ep 0 "The Cage."

DS9, S3 Eps 11 and 12, "Past Tense, Parts I & II."

First off: The invocation of the stereotype of a "crackhead" in reference to a black woman is, whether you consciously intended it to be or not, a very racist thing to say. I'm sure you didn't intend it, but it is. I strongly urge you not to do that again.

Secondly: With regards to the idea of sympathetic characters who are bad parents:

TOS S2 Ep 15 "Journey to Babel." Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. DS9 S6 Ep 3 "Sons and Daughters."

With regards to sympathetic characters with substance abuse problems: Star Trek: First Contact. T'Pol and Trellium-D in ENT S3.

TOS S1 Eps 15 & 16, "The Menagerie, Parts I & II." TOS S2 Ep 5 "Amok Time." TOS S3 Ep 24 "Turnabout Intruder." Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. TNG S4 Ep 3 "Brothers." TNG S7 Ep 12 "The Pegasus." DS9 S1 Ep 18 "Dramatis Personae." DS9 S3 Ep 21 "The Die is Cast." Star Trek: First Contact. Star Trek: Inusrrection. VOY S7 Ep 4 "Repression."

Etc.

Violent acts committed by main characters acting under the influence of alien mind control or mind-altering phenomenon have never been depicted as legally binding upon the characters. No one court-martialed Geordi for trying to assassinate the Klingon ambassador under Romulan mind control in "The Mind's Eye." No one held Data, Troi, or O'Brien responsible for their actions in "Power Play." No one held Picard criminally liable for the deaths of thousands of Federation citizens he perpetuated as Locutus in "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II."

TNG S2 Ep 15 "Pen Pals." TNG S7 Ep 13 "Homeward."

No, they're still the exceptions to the rule.

 

Not that I actually have a problem with dystopian fiction, but the Federation being reduced to a handful of planets and nearly being wiped out by a single aggressive faction seems kinda dystopian. Things do improve over the course of the season, though, but Kevin Sorbo could show up at any moment.

 

Huh?

 

First, the poster in question hadn’t watched season 3 of Disco so that’s not really being discussed. But if it were, isn’t the issue more of where the story leaves us as opposed to where it begins? Even still, every step along the way in that season shows hope. Hell, the first and last episodes are called “That Hope is You.”

(Queue the commentary that everything in Disco is about Burnham.)

 

Don't forget Enterprise. We saw an actual slave auction in one episode.

Also the EMH Mk 1s being used as slaves in a mine in Voyager.

 

Luckily for us, Michael Burnham is a far more interesting character played by a far more talented actor than Alex's Garth of Izar, the centrepiece around which Axanar orbits.

 

So interesting that we have a whole forum dedicated to it

Axanar is nothing but an endless source of people trying to cling on to some weird hope of something I don't understand.

 

...What?

I've noticed that many of the older Trek episodes pointed to as validations of the darker aspects of the Federation in newer Trek are absolutely horrible episodes that I've always hated...

Well, I'll certainly grant you the better actor point...