The good news is that there was an uptick in the demo audience, which is where all the advertising money comes from. I guess kids and old people were busy watching the NBA.
Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!
- Thread starter The Realist
- Start date
I usually don't like having to watch the superhero origins of well established characters over and over again but this time i had a huge smile for most of the flashback scenes - even if they took up half the episode and we knew everything ( well, apart from the twins of course) it still was so awesome, especially that one shot when he reveals who he truly is and floats in the air. That shot alone could make for a really cool nerd screen background.
As the last episode wrapped up a big event in a sort of clichee TV superhero way ( McGuffin usage, hero heroics, some personal drama) apparently we're not done yet and it seems Lois was prepared the whole time. If John Diggle comes to the show i'll be very curious how that happens and above all if the teaser from the Arrow crossover ( last i saw anyway) proves correct and he carries a lantern and a ring - that would blow my mind.
As the last episode wrapped up a big event in a sort of clichee TV superhero way ( McGuffin usage, hero heroics, some personal drama) apparently we're not done yet and it seems Lois was prepared the whole time. If John Diggle comes to the show i'll be very curious how that happens and above all if the teaser from the Arrow crossover ( last i saw anyway) proves correct and he carries a lantern and a ring - that would blow my mind.
I like how it brought new angles to the usual origin story. Or old angles, in some ways -- bringing in the costume from the Fleischer cartoons and Atom Man from the radio serial gave it a different feel from the origins we've seen over the past half-century or so. (Plus we got an explanation for why the initial S-shield is different from the El mayarah/House of El crest. Clark only saw that crest for the first time on Jor-El's hologram and recreated it from memory later on.)
And the approach to Lois & Clark at the Planet was definitely different. Usually we see Lois aggressively pursuing the Superman story and initially seeing Clark as a rival or a minor nuisance. Here, she hit it off with Clark right off the bat and saw Superman as a flashy distraction from the really important stories, which was quite a fresh angle, and one I quite liked. Definitely novel to see Superman becoming Ron Troupe's beat at the Planet rather than Lois's or Clark's. Although it nicely avoids the usual conflict of interest in having Clark cover Superman stories.
I was actually disappointed at the Superman reveal to Lois. When Clark was telling Martha that he was ready to tell Lois, I expected Lois to be furious that he lied to her, and especially that he sat there overhearing that she was in love with him while pretending to be someone else.
Mostly correct, but other than the Superman story he uses to get hired, Cark is generally portrayed as writing mostly general stories on the city beat, with some op-eds, after training under Lois for a bit (see triangle era Superman, Donner movies, Lois&Clark, Ruby Spears Superman 80s cartoon, Timmverse Superman 90s cartoon...)
"I'm confused, Kent. See, I've lived in Metropolis most of my life, and I can't figure out how some yokel from Smallville is suddenly getting every hot story in town."
"Well, Lois, the truth is I'm actually Superman in disguise, and I only pretend to be a journalist in order to hear about disasters as they happen and then squeeze you out of the byline."
"You're a sick man, Kent."
"You asked."
I don't know if she has to be furious given the scope of his secret, it comes down to the age old reason of secret super identities, i.e. protecting those close to them and trying to have a normal life. I think Lois can understand that ( and hopefully they talked about it after the big reveal).
Superman overhearing Lois in the studio - i don't think you need superhearing to have heard Lois and her friend, he was not that far away and they talked quite loud. Even if not i agree that it was uncharacteristic for him to eavesdrop into a private conversation.
The pre-Crisis Superman was the worst. Not only he did have virtually ALL the exclusives on Superman's exploits, but he used an inordinate amount of time and resources (including calling Batman from Gotham to pause his crime-fighting and pretend to be him) to stop Lois to discover the truth about him.
Truly heroic.
Yes, eventually, but she'd be entirely within her rights to be angry at first. It would be in character for Lois, a crusading seeker of truth, to be upset about being lied to by someone (two someones) she trusted, and to demand a very good explanation before she chose to forgive him, and to make him promise never to deceive her again.
I mean, if she just passively accepts his secret and his reasons, that makes it all about him. Her own personality, her own values and beliefs and rights, just vanish from the story, and that should never happen in any modern portrayal of this relationship. They need to be equals, to be equally in control of the interaction. Lois has a right to assert herself and demand that Clark earn her acceptance and her trust. She needs to do what she does best -- question him, confront him, extract every bit of the truth from him, before she arrives at her conclusion.
I just take that as the theatrical convention of private conversations being performed loudly enough for the audience to hear, while the conceit is that nearby characters can't hear it.
That is not what I said. I was talking about how Lois would perceive it, not how I perceived it. I presume that he couldn't help but overhear whether he wanted to or not. But I can see her being angry that he was there under false pretenses, that he was in a position to hear her admit how she felt about Clark because he was pretending to be someone other than Clark.
Objectively, he can't even expect Clark to reveal his secret immediately to every woman he is dating: "Hi, the name is Clark, I come from a litte Kansas' town and I'm secretly Superman". He revealed it when he thought it was the right time, and it would be very arrogant of Lois to pretend that she knew better than him.
I think it’s worth factoring in also that this secret isn’t something shameful or deceitful in a negative way, but rather an amazing revelation. It’s more akin to, “I’m secretly a billionaire” or “I’m the secret heir to the throne” than it is to, “I cheated on you” or the like.
I agree with Christopher that Lois needs to be Lois, but I could see the sheer awe and wonder of “the man I love is Superman” taking the edge off any sense of betrayal. Yes, they would need to talk, and I’m sure they did, but I could see Lois (particularly this more complex, nuanced version of her, who’s capable of reactions beyond her stock character traits) accepting it more gracefully than one might expect — especially given how strong her love for Clark was already shown to be.
I agree with Christopher that Lois needs to be Lois, but I could see the sheer awe and wonder of “the man I love is Superman” taking the edge off any sense of betrayal. Yes, they would need to talk, and I’m sure they did, but I could see Lois (particularly this more complex, nuanced version of her, who’s capable of reactions beyond her stock character traits) accepting it more gracefully than one might expect — especially given how strong her love for Clark was already shown to be.
That's twisting it bizarrely. Yes, as I already said, she would eventually come to accept his reasons. That NOT mean that she would just passively roll over and immediately accept it without question, because Lois Lane is not a person who accepts anything without question. There would be a process, a journey to get to that acceptance, both because it's in character for Lois and because it would be a dramatically interesting character dynamic to see that process. (Did you ever read All-Star Superman? After Clark revealed his identity there, Lois didn't believe him at first -- she thought Superman was playing an elaborate prank on her. It was a journey for her to arrive at acceptance, and that was what made it an interesting story.)
And how is it "arrogant" for Lois to be upset that her work partner, friend, and love interest had been lying to her for an extended period of time? Any person in such a situation would have every right to feel betrayed and to demand an explanation before accepting it. "Pretend that she knew better?" That is incredibly condescending. It's not "pretending" to assert her own point of view, her own right to expect answers rather than just being a submissive helpmeet.
Exactly. I'm not saying she'd never understand. I'm saying I wanted to see that talk, that process whereby she worked through her feelings and arrived at that acceptance. It would be an interesting journey to see dramatized. Just glossing over it and reducing it to a single awed look is a waste of an opportunity for what could've been a really great scene between these two characters.
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That would have been nice to see and maybe we will get to see it in some future episode but at the moment where this show is, spending more than half the episode on a well known origin story ( as charming as it was done) is enough for the moment, especially since the season is moving into its final stage.
I don't agree. I was really invested in this fresh, well-done take on the origin, and I was disappointed when they rushed through one of the most important parts so they could get back to the present-day story. I was hoping the whole episode would be flashbacks, save for the reveal at the end -- it's structurally a bit awkward that it's half-and-half.
People are entitled to their secrets. Clark should feel like he can tell or not tell someone something very personal whenever he feels most comfortable. Also the idea of people knowing his secret being in danger is still a danger so their is also a added level responsibility of whether or not you should put this burden of knowing the truth on someone. Especially complicated when you love that person.
We saw like what five seconds of him showing Lois who he was? There would be plenty of time for her to process what happened later. If someone close to me was suddenly 15 feet in the air my first thought wouldn't be "You lying son of a...".
Yes, that is exactly the problem. I wanted to see that process. I'm not making a moral argument or something -- I'm talking about what would be interesting and worthwhile to see in a story. I like this version of Lois Lane. I think she's a rich, terrific character. So I'm disappointed that I didn't get to see her reaction to something as big, important, and transformative in her life as discovering that Clark Kent is Superman. I wanted to see Elizabeth Tulloch play that reaction, go through that journey. I didn't want five seconds, I wanted a whole scene, maybe a whole act devoted to that. I was more interested in seeing that than I was in seeing, say, Kyle tell Lois he was sorry for being a jerk, or Sarah and the boys sitting around going "Gee, wow, that was wild, wasn't it?"
I mean, when he revealed it to the boys in the pilot, they didn't just stare and say "cool" and leave it at that. It was a shock to them. It upended their whole world, and it took time for them to cope with. And the show took the time to show us that whole journey, the drama of their adjustment. So not letting us see Lois go through the equivalent process feels like it's underserving her as a character.
No guarantee this will happen, of course, but the flashbacks this episode were basically an expansion of the montage that opened the pilot; we saw most if not all of the same scenes repeated, embedded in this extended version of the narrative. So it may be they will return to it again at some point, further exploring the moments that remained truncated this time around. That would be pretty great, actually, if they treated that origin montage as a framework to keep building on throughout the series.
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