Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!

[TREK_GOD_1]

It's odd how inconsistent you are in your demands for "realism." You embrace evil Superman, neck-snapping Superman

No, I've explained why Evil Superman is used in the comics and other media. Apparently, some creators do not treat Superman as God, so they are able to explore the character in ways beyond the copy+paste Godly Camp Counselor you want to see in every adaptation of the character.

Yet Irons is apparently supposed to encounter this woman who is the twin of his brutally murdered wife and nobly declaim, "No! I cannot desire her, for she is betrothed to another!"

Clearly, you have never seen or been involved in situations where someone is obsessing on another, only in this case, its worse because Irons knows this mirror of his wife is another woman with a life/family of her own, but he does not care. You can spin the story any way you want, but I know where that's from.

 

[dupersuper]

No, I've explained why Evil Superman is used in the comics and other media. Apparently, some creators do not treat Superman as God, so they are able to explore the character in ways beyond the copy+paste Godly Camp Counselor you want to see in every adaptation of the character.

You do...like Superman, right? It's sometimes hard to tell...

 

[The Realist]

No, I've explained why Evil Superman is used in the comics and other media. Apparently, some creators do not treat Superman as God, so they are able to explore the character in ways beyond the copy+paste Godly Camp Counselor you want to see in every adaptation of the character.



Clearly, you have never seen or been involved in situations where someone is obsessing on another, only in this case, its worse because Irons knows this mirror of his wife is another woman with a life/family of her own, but he does not care. You can spin the story any way you want, but I know where that's from.

Good talk.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Yawn.

 

[dupersuper]

Yawn.

Your jaw must be getting sore.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Clearly, you have never seen or been involved in situations where someone is obsessing on another, only in this case, its worse because Irons knows this mirror of his wife is another woman with a life/family of her own, but he does not care. You can spin the story any way you want, but I know where that's from.

I used to know a set of very attractive twins. One was married, and the other a lesbian, so all I could do is respect their choices and muddle...

Physically identical doesn't mean much.

Their personalities diverged 20 years ago.

 

[Photoman15]

I used to know a set of very attractive twins. One was married, and the other a lesbian, so all I could do is respect their choices and muddle...

Physically identical doesn't mean much.

Their personalities diverged 20 years ago.

But you previously wasn't very much in love with them, married one of them and had kids with either one. Different story.

 

[Christopher]

No, I've explained why Evil Superman is used in the comics and other media. Apparently, some creators do not treat Superman as God, so they are able to explore the character in ways beyond the copy+paste Godly Camp Counselor you want to see in every adaptation of the character.

I've already talked about how it's more than that. I don't accept that evil is more interesting than good. People giving into their cravings and fears and selfishness is linear and uninteresting. Heroes are interesting because they struggle against their darker side, because they keep waging that internal struggle every day of their lives, while villains have already surrendered and thus have much simpler internal lives. The compelling thing about Superman is not just that he has overwhelming power, but that he has the strength and commitment to contain it and never abuse it. That strength of will is far more impressive than the strength of his muscles.

I've said it before: What's great about Superman is that he has so much superior power but he thinks we're the amazing ones. He admires and cherishes humanity and strives to be worthy to be part of it, when it would be so easy to elevate himself above it. That's a striking contrast, and contrast is interesting. The whole point of Superman is that he's not written as a god -- that he could make himself a god but prefers to be a man.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I've already talked about how it's more than that. Evil is boring.

Many say good (as the purity idea certain Superman fans want to believe he is) is boring as its often traps characters in repetitive and stale personalities and/or situations. There's no doubt the number of Evil Superman stories across media disproves your isolated "boring" notion, as that kind of story shows other sides to a personality, which--contrary to the pearl-clutching protests of some--is based on the real gamut of emotional/philosophical motives. Readers / viewers can understand and do accept a character breaking from the editorial anchors of a certain point in his published history.

 

[kirk55555]

You just don’t get it, Ovation. kirk55555 is a masterful performance artist in the Andy Kaufman mode, delivering pure lunacy so straight-facedly you’re never sure where the joke is, or even if there is one — except there must be, because something so bizarre and surreal couldn’t possibly be anything other than a deadpan put-on — could it?

You are full of it. You really can't handle people disagreeing with you, so you have to make crap up. I always say what I think, I've never made up any opinion. I have, rarely, changed opinions (like most people occasionally do over time), but I'm not trolling and I don't want people to whine and complain about my opinions, but I'm not going to lie about what I think just to get people like you to stop complaining about people you disagree with.

This is serious fucking bullshit, just because somebody makes changes when they do an adaptation, that doesn't mean they hate the source material. I absolutely love Batman, but a while back I had some ideas for a Batman story/fan fic I was thinking about writing, and I was approaching like the movie and TV writers do, and putting my twist on things rather than setting it in one of the existing universes. The big changes I was going to make is that Gordon was going to know right from the start that Bruce was Batman, and I was taking the idea of Bruce and Selena Kyle knowing each other as kids and adding the twist that they dated in high school, so they would have immediately recognized each other during their first encounters as Batman and Catwoman.

They shouldn't adapt something if you're going to do massive changes to the point where it doesn't resemble the source material, thats just being an asshole who is trying to get your original show picked up by tricking stupid TV/film executives. The Super Sons producer/showrunner/etc obviously wanted a show about super powered teens, but needed a franchise to get the show picked up, so convinced enough people to let him steal superman's name. Its happened a lot, especially in superhero media. From the idiot who made the 70s Incredible Hulk show publicly not liking the source material, to noted asshole Todd Philips outright saying that Joker is just an original film he tricked WB into releasing as a DC related film with a light joker paintjob, superhero fans frequently get fucked over, and I'm tired of people defending all the bullshit.

you can like what you like, but pretending that its not a fuck you to the source material is ridiculous. Liking the end result or not doesn't change the fact that its a bad adaptation by people who don't like the supposed source material.

 

[Mudd]

"Evil" certainly is more interesting than "good" in fiction, because the kind of folks who divide human behavior and motivation into categories like that define and express the notion of "good" mainly in terms of anodyne pieties and cliches. Evil characters in pop culture are allowed to embrace the whole range of human passions and emotions. This is less and less true of "good people" in TV and movies. Not noticing that or wishing it away is just denial, and unobservant.

 

[Mudd]

People, and their emotions, don't work that way. Hell, people have been lusting after other people's spouses as long as there have been people and spouses, usually for far less compelling and sympathetic reasons than Irons's desire for Lois.

Yep.

Lust and jealousy are more widespread and relatable human motivations for violence than is, oh, desire for world domination.

People giving into their cravings and fears and selfishness is linear and uninteresting.

This is a terribly simplistic framing of even comic book villainy - it is, in short, linear and uninteresting.

 

[Caretaker]

I don't know if Jon Cryer's Lex would work in this series, it's such a serious tone sometimes, and that version of Lex isn't.

Bring the S&L characters over to one of the other shows, but bringing them onto S&L I think would just feel out of place.

Well, we need to wait to see if Luthor survives the end of Supergirl or is even the same man by the end.

 

[Christopher]

Well, we need to wait to see if Luthor survives the end of Supergirl or is even the same man by the end.

Given how much the Arrowverse likes keeping actors around (five David Ramsey appearances upcoming), and given how positively Cryer's Lex has been received, I doubt they'd close the door to the possibility of his return on Superman & Lois. We got some interaction between him and Hoechlin's Superman in Crisis, but it'd be great to get more -- not to mention getting to see him and Lois go head to head, which could be really cool.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But you previously wasn't very much in love with them, married one of them and had kids with either one. Different story.

Swear to god, both my grand parents on my mother's side were twins.

Apparently my great uncle and great aunt did go on a few double dates, but nothing clicked. One of them got married, and we are fairly sure the other one died a virgin.

When my Nana died... Grandad did not waltz up to Great Aunt Sally's door, and say "Face it tiger, you just hot the jackpot."

 

[JD]

I guess my other issue with the way they did it is that he's hell bent on killing Superman to prevent disaster/save (possibly try and marry) Lois -- but (and they may explain this with another flashback) - it seems he had little issue sacrificing his daughter for the cause (and yes, maybe she was killed by Superman or one of his world's X-Kryptonite ressurectees <--- But if not, pretty cold just to leave her behind.) He also should have been way more bloodthirsty in the fight (in the pilot episode) where he stabbed Kal-El with the Kryptonite. IE followed him down and performed the coup de grace as yeah, that suit was deflecting everything Supes had and that would have been the best chance/time to finish the job (In fact when he didn't; I assumed he had other plans for Superman, and he was (for whatever reason) just trying to further rattle Kal-El's cage.

The last episode started to give me the impression he was shifting his focus from Superman to Edge, so he might not have been quite as determined to kill Supes as he had been before.

You are full of it. You really can't handle people disagreeing with you, so you have to make crap up. I always say what I think, I've never made up any opinion. I have, rarely, changed opinions (like most people occasionally do over time), but I'm not trolling and I don't want people to whine and complain about my opinions, but I'm not going to lie about what I think just to get people like you to stop complaining about people you disagree with.



They shouldn't adapt something if you're going to do massive changes to the point where it doesn't resemble the source material, thats just being an asshole who is trying to get your original show picked up by tricking stupid TV/film executives. The Super Sons producer/showrunner/etc obviously wanted a show about super powered teens, but needed a franchise to get the show picked up, so convinced enough people to let him steal superman's name. Its happened a lot, especially in superhero media. From the idiot who made the 70s Incredible Hulk show publicly not liking the source material, to noted asshole Todd Philips outright saying that Joker is just an original film he tricked WB into releasing as a DC related film with a light joker paintjob, superhero fans frequently get fucked over, and I'm tired of people defending all the bullshit.

you can like what you like, but pretending that its not a fuck you to the source material is ridiculous. Liking the end result or not doesn't change the fact that its a bad adaptation by people who don't like the supposed source material.

 

[Christopher]

The last episode started to give me the impression he was shifting his focus from Superman to Edge, so he might not have been quite as determined to kill Supes as he had been before.

I got the impression somehow that on Irons's Earth, Edge had something to do with Superman turning evil. I figure that the others with Kryptonian powers that destroyed the city alongside black-suit Superman were Edge's X-kryptonite metas, since it's logical that it would be tied into the season-arc threat rather than an unconnected Kryptonian-invasion sort of thing (which Supergirl already did once or twice). So maybe the X-kryptonite did something to Superman too, although it's usually red kryptonite that turns him evil or amoral (at least in screen adaptations, and we've seen red K have that effect on Supergirl).

 

[JD]

Yeah, that would make sense, and could explain why he is so convinced that what happened on his Earth is now happening on Earth Prime.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

"Evil" certainly is more interesting than "good" in fiction, because the kind of folks who divide human behavior and motivation into categories like that define and express the notion of "good" mainly in terms of anodyne pieties and cliches. Evil characters in pop culture are allowed to embrace the whole range of human passions and emotions. This is less and less true of "good people" in TV and movies. Not noticing that or wishing it away is just denial, and unobservant.

This is a terribly simplistic framing of even comic book villainy - it is, in short, linear and uninteresting.

True.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

You are full of it. You really can't handle people disagreeing with you, so you have to make crap up.

I'm not going to lie about what I think just to get people like you to stop complaining about people you disagree with.

Indeed.