Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!
- Thread starter The Realist
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You just don’t get it, Ovation. kirk55555 is a masterful performance artist in the Andy Kaufman mode, delivering pure lunacy so straight-facedly you’re never sure where the joke is, or even if there is one — except there must be, because something so bizarre and surreal couldn’t possibly be anything other than a deadpan put-on — could it?
Either the first appearance of Barry Allen in Showcase #4 (1956), or the official debut of Earth-2 in "The Flash of Two Worlds" in The Flash #123 (1961).
Technically, there was also a WW one-shot "Wonder Woman's Invisible Twin", but that's rarely counted.
Technically, there was also a WW one-shot "Wonder Woman's Invisible Twin", but that's rarely counted.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with people changing their minds, and since we never got an real evidence that he actually Lex Luthor, they didn't contradict anything. All we got was the AI calling him Capt. Luthor, and that was easy enough to explain away in this week's episode. Honestly, I think having him be Steel is a lot more interesting than him just being another Lex Luthor. We've gotten a bunch of live action Lexes, including one already in the Arrowverse, but only one not very good Steel. This could be a chance to redeem the character in live action.
This is serious fucking bullshit, just because somebody makes changes when they do an adaptation, that doesn't mean they hate the source material. I absolutely love Batman, but a while back I had some ideas for a Batman story/fan fic I was thinking about writing, and I was approaching like the movie and TV writers do, and putting my twist on things rather than setting it in one of the existing universes. The big changes I was going to make is that Gordon was going to know right from the start that Bruce was Batman, and I was taking the idea of Bruce and Selena Kyle knowing each other as kids and adding the twist that they dated in high school, so they would have immediately recognized each other during their first encounters as Batman and Catwoman.
I guess my other issue with the way they did it is that he's hell bent on killing Superman to prevent disaster/save (possibly try and marry) Lois -- but (and they may explain this with another flashback) - it seems he had little issue sacrificing his daughter for the cause (and yes, maybe she was killed by Superman or one of his world's X-Kryptonite ressurectees <--- But if not, pretty cold just to leave her behind.) He also should have been way more bloodthirsty in the fight (in the pilot episode) where he stabbed Kal-El with the Kryptonite. IE followed him down and performed the coup de grace as yeah, that suit was deflecting everything Supes had and that would have been the best chance/time to finish the job (In fact when he didn't; I assumed he had other plans for Superman, and he was (for whatever reason) just trying to further rattle Kal-El's cage.
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The moment anyone with enormous. life-changing power involves themselves in the affairs of others with the intent of addressing and/or solving their problems, the door to being corrupted or abusive opens, particularly if one is successful in the application of their own will toward others. It is part of nature for many powerful people to believe they know what works/what does not, who is honest/who is not, etc. Superman as a concept is not immune to corruption; he may not be human (which he's aware of), but he's been raised to think like them and react to their issues in a way similar to humans, which includes a desire to enforce will/laws from the perch of his own perspective. The difference between Superman and Regular Man is that he knows his power is so off of the scale of / above mankind, that there's few things he cannot do in the management of human life, if he wanted to act that way.
That's the appeal of Evil Superman--because he's not, or has he ever been infallible, and audiences live in reality, so they are quite familiar with the powerful becoming controlling or flat out corrupt, so its not strange / out of imaginary bounds when writers have explored the Evil Superman concept, because it is something they-and readers--have no trouble imagining themselves.
You are not kidding.
^ One of the many reasons why the Irons story does not hold up in creating a justifiable reason for his plotting against Superman--and he's not insane, so he has no excuse to stalk a woman he knows is not the one fro his world, knows earth's Superman is not the one from his world, so he completely unsympathetic when the writers use his flashbacks to explain his actions. He just comes off as obsessive and creepy in that aforementioned stalker sense.
Indeed, that's an integral part of how creativity works. You never get it perfect on the first try. And the more you learn about your story and its characters, the more likely you are to discover better ideas than what you thought you were going to do at first.
I agree. Steel is the supporting character I most wanted to see in this show. (Only problem being that Nate Heywood on Legends of Tomorrow also goes by Steel.)
Where are you getting "sacrificing" from? There's no evidence that Nat died. In fact, this might be a spoiler, but I saw Wole Parks say in some interview (I forget which) that
Irons is hoping to return to her once his mission is done. Which would suggest that his means of entry into Earth-Prime was independent of the Crisis and he didn't just wash up on our shores like alternate Beth on Batwoman.
I think the fact that he's John Henry Irons makes him less likely to be bloodthirsty. He may feel he has to kill Superman to protect the world, but if he's genuinely a hero type, killing wouldn't come that easily. Maybe he hesitated, or he still had some doubts about his mission.
Oh, come on. We've seen countless multiverse stories where people react to their lost loved ones' doppelgangers with the same feelings they had for the originals. Sisko with Mirror Jennifer in DS9. Burnham with Mirror Georgiou and vice-versa in Discovery. Peter B. Parker with Mary Jane in Into the Spider-Verse. Kate Kane with alt-Beth in Batwoman. Nate Heywood with Zari Tarazi in Legends of Tomorrow. It's one of the oldest multiverse tropes in the book. It's hardly a sign of insanity, obsession, or bad writing.
And he wasn't "stalking" her. He was recruiting her, seeking her help because he trusted her and knew she's a great reporter. And he was hoping to spare her from having to suffer the fate of his Lois.
Reading the pilot script for Superman and Lois, I noticed a nice easter egg in Jon Kent's headstone, something I didn't catch on screen. The script direction states:
Eben Kent was the name of Clark's pop in the 1950s Adventures of Superman, as well as in the 1940s serial. Ma Kent is Sarah in the George Reeves series.
Eben and Sarah Kent are also their names in the 1942 novel The Adventures of Superman.
In the Golden Age comics, they were John and Mary Kent. They weren't Jonathan and Martha until the 1950s (Adventure Comics and Superboy).
Eben Kent was the name of Clark's pop in the 1950s Adventures of Superman, as well as in the 1940s serial. Ma Kent is Sarah in the George Reeves series.
Eben and Sarah Kent are also their names in the 1942 novel The Adventures of Superman.
In the Golden Age comics, they were John and Mary Kent. They weren't Jonathan and Martha until the 1950s (Adventure Comics and Superboy).
^ Wow, that is a fantastic deep-cut Easter egg! I question whether it's visible on screen in the final version of the pilot, however -- even if I missed it, somebody surely would have caught it and pointed it out in all the reviews and discussion I read.
(I actually have the pilot script downloaded and saved, but I've been oddly reluctant to read it, not really wanting to have an alternate version of the pilot competing for space in my head.)
(I actually have the pilot script downloaded and saved, but I've been oddly reluctant to read it, not really wanting to have an alternate version of the pilot competing for space in my head.)
Irons would have to be a robot not to react emotionally to the doppelganger of his murdered wife.
Looks like the show is recovering from last week's ratings disaster. Still only 0.82 million - about on par with Fear The Walking Dead which is on cable... However its a large increase from last week when 0.718 million watched. More importantly, demo ratings up from 0.13 to 0.20.
There's a difference between seeing a doppelganger and obsessing. Any adult can see his facial expressions and the way he's acting around her to know he's not just surprised at seeing earth's Lois.
Exactly what would you want to see in this series (of the Superman mythos) that you feel is not being adapted or used as inspiration?
Its not as though teenagers with super-powers--specifically a son of Superman is a new or alien concept; from 1973 - 1980, the "Super Sons" stories appeared in World's Finest Comics, where the lives of the teenaged sons of Superman and Batman were explored.
First, again, he's not "obsessing." He's working with her because he knows what she's capable of and trusts her. It's natural enough that he'd seek her out as an ally because he knows what she's capable of. Yes, obviously the sight of her triggers feelings in him, the same as it does with all those countless other characters in the same situation that I mentioned before. But it's very strange to mistake that for an irrational obsession. One can feel an emotion without it being a pathological extreme.
Second, why in the world would you expect surprise? His whole mission is based on awareness of the doppelganger concept, and on the assumption that Earth-Prime's development will recapitulate events on his own world. So of course he's not surprised that there are doubles.
It's strange that you're so determined to see him as utterly irrational and stupid when there isn't a shred of evidence for that.
Old 5s really thinks he knows what this show is about.
I would like him to just lay out a couple of key points of what the series is getting "wrong" about the Superman mythos, or what he would prefer to see.
It's odd how inconsistent you are in your demands for "realism." You embrace evil Superman, neck-snapping Superman -- anything to pull him off his moral pedestal. Yet Irons is apparently supposed to encounter this woman who is the twin of his brutally murdered wife and nobly declaim, "No! I cannot desire her, for she is betrothed to another!"
People, and their emotions, don't work that way. Hell, people have been lusting after other people's spouses as long as there have been people and spouses, usually for far less compelling and sympathetic reasons than Irons's desire for Lois.
You're confusing network TV with your lawn again.
To say nothing of John Kent in the current comics (even co-headlining a book with Damien), the Conner Kent Superboy (had his own title and Superboy & the Ravers), the original Superboy comics with young Clark Kent, the unaired Superboy pilot from the 50s, the Superboy cartoon from the 60s, the Superboy TV show from the 80s, Smallville, All versions of Legion of Super Heroes and Supermen of America, Supergirl, all the Elseworlds stories in which Superman has a kid/kids... There sure is a lot of precedent for this thing the current showrunners are doing that shows how much they hate Supermans history...
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