Hey, I never noticed that before....

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Warped9, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. Physics of Trekkies

    Physics of Trekkies Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Could not agree more. I have heard the "beam down too fast so Keeper is giving an illusion" hypothesis before.

    One thing I will say is IF Vina is still alive then they SHOULD tell her Pike is really coming down or else they will be in for a real shock when they discover human minds change over years and she will be able to pick up the differences between her fantasy Pike and the real Pike pretty fast I'd say.

    If she had DIED, then Pike would have no way of knowing the deception as far as I can tell.

    It's hard for me to see that in my mind though. I grew up reading the hell out of this issue (DC Comics Annual # 2, 1984):

    [​IMG]

    It's for sale at mile high comics: Mile High Comics - STAR TREK ANNUAL (1984) #2 - Page 1
     
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  2. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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  3. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. Then again, the craft probably has a toilet somewhere, complete with a door that says swoosh, and the aft compartment portside is a logical place (indeed the only one possible). It would also be against the outer hull, allowing occupants to hear things two guys lying in the middle of the floor of the main compartment might not.

    So the question becomes, what were McCoy and Mears doing there exactly - with hand phasers drawn?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. Doug Otte

    Doug Otte Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I appreciate everyone's thoughtful responses to my comments, but my comments might have been misinterpreted. The Menagerie was a brilliant script on its own that also used The Cage as a basis and created something larger. I enjoy it immensely.

    I was responding to the comments about whether one should watch The Cage alone, or whether watching The Menagerie is enough. I enjoy watching The Cage because it's a self-sufficient story on its own without Kirk's Menagerie scenes wrapping around it. Both are worthwhile.

    And, my comment was that the flow of The Cage's scenes is interrupted when watching The Menagerie, not the other way around.
     
  6. Physics of Trekkies

    Physics of Trekkies Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    In the history of TV, "The Menagerie" should go down as one of the greatest "clip shows" ever imo.

    "Shades of Grey" on the other hand ...
     
  7. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Exactly that. TOS had the captains log recaps; not to "insult the audience" the way some youtube channels love to chant, but also or instead because there were no home recording devices and if someone tuned in 8 minutes 47 seconds late as what's on channel 3 was more important when seeing what show in that time slot was best or getting home late from beinging home the kiddies from detention or whatever, then getting filled in helps them to catch up. Unless they were meant to insult the audience, if not another reason. Such as some casual viewers going to fetch milk and cookies and/or vodka and/or go potty because they were jonesing and having that little narrative recap helps. In one way or another and many, the 1960s were a different time. /preachToChoir :devil:

    "Menagerie" was brilliant both as a a cost-cutting venture, to re-use said pilot, but did flesh out the lore a little. Especially when "Cage" had a few things that are at direct odds (e.g. Spock's behavior on a number of occasions. In comes yet another inevitable pie-fling over what's canon and what isn't. :guffaw:)
     
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  8. Hofner

    Hofner Commodore Commodore

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    One way of looking at "The Menagerie" that makes me laugh is that they basically gave us a story about a bunch of peoples sitting around watching TV and got away with it.

    I'm not dissing the two parter at all, all around it wa such a good idea and they did an extremely good job integrating the two stories.

    One of the transitions that always touched me was when Pike's battle with the Rigellian was over, the Talosians temporarily stop their transmission to give crippled Pike a rest; the poor guy was evidently drained by reliving that experience.

    Robert
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's a tough act to pull off, and basically impossible to get the timing right. Spock speaks of a trip of six days; in that time, the heroes usually can defeat gods and reverse the fate of the universe, but here they can't even turn off their own autopilot. Also, being glued to the screen seems to deprive every character of initiative, including those who aren't actually shown watching; time only proceeds in that one room, and haltingly at that.

    But one can say that's part of the charm: Talosian television magic turns even the greatest of heroes into paralyzed idiots who won't notice the passage of time.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  10. Physics of Trekkies

    Physics of Trekkies Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    There is a big difference between convincing Apollo in a few hours that humans do not worship anymore and cracking an encryption code Spock put on the Enterprise computer.

    Star Trek is full of charm that withstands even the most pedantic of nitpicking imo.
     
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  11. Physics of Trekkies

    Physics of Trekkies Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes. This. Exactly. With Kirk echoing the early audience's confusion "So they CARE about Captain Pike?"

    Engaging writing all around. :beer:
     
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  12. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  13. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    That was an outstanding article - not only the wraparound piece but also the embedded article with Nicest Guy Ever Dee Kelley humbly acknowledging his good fortune - and that was before the show became a worldwide phenomenon! Pretty sure I had seen that before somewhere but I loved it. Thanks.

    In other news, a rewatch of The Tholian Web today - which I watched unabbreviated and would certainly never attempt to reduce to a challenging acronym :hugegrin: - revealed a woman operations division lieutenant commander among the attendees at Kirk's service. She's only visible for a moment (at least clearly with the braid-and-a-half showing), but I thought she looked a bit uncomfortable in the uniform. I assume it was Anne Mulhall's.
     
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  14. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    IIRC they removed the braid and badges every time the uniforms were sent out to be cleaned. If so there's no reason they'd necessarily have stuck to a given rank that was on there previously.
     
  15. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes but we know the Talosians have great range, there is nothing preventing them from pluging Pike into Vinas shared illusion the moment he agrees to go. Where his body is at that moment doesn't matter.
     
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  16. TheAdmiralty

    TheAdmiralty Commander Red Shirt

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    That's why I view it as kind of superfluous now, I'd rather just watch The Cage, the courtroom scenes with Spock just don't add much. It feels like a clip show.

    At the time they were probably just trying to find a use for all the footage of The Cage that cost a lot of money to produce and it was a story that Gene obviously liked a lot.
     
  17. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It also gave them a whole additional episode's worth of already paid for footage which helped the budget immensely.

    Watching it on home video may seem a little awkward with the breaks in the narrative flow of the pilot story, but when seen on TV as it aired with commercials, which meant needing climaxes, it's fine.
     
  18. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And it helped them stay on shooting schedule. They were falling behind and were sometimes in danger of not being able to deliver an episode on time for air. Use of The Cage footage in The Menagerie gave them another week's worth of filming time to bank.
     
  19. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    It doesn't hurt that the Cage was a pretty cool episode, to begin with, more than average for TOS.
     
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  20. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    In my view, "The Menagerie" is the official, original broadcast version of "The Cage". The restored standalone version of "The Cage" is a home video extra. Doing a watch-through, I'll just watch "The Menagerie" when it comes up.