Tuvix Episode Revisited

[Oddish]

More like a cult leader.

 

[Mr.Mork]

 

[Mr.Mork]

 

[at Quark's]

He was wearing a Starfleet uniform with lieutenant insignia. That suggests that, for intents and purposes, he "inherited" Tuvok's rank and position.

Not without some initial hesitation, though:

JANEWAY: To tell you the truth, we could use a little help in the Mess hall.
TUVIX: And I'd be glad to give you a hand. But, after careful consideration, I've decided that the most sensible thing for me to do is to resume the tactical post.
JANEWAY: Tactical?
TUVIX: Remember, Captain, I do possess Tuvok's knowledge and expertise. And while I have no doubt that the crew misses Neelix's cooking, you need your most experienced tactical officer. That's me.
EMH: If I may, Captain. Mister Tuvix
<gives an OK for Tuvix to leave sickbay and confirms that he really seems to have the skills and disposition of both Tuvok and Neelix>
JANEWAY: Well, Mister Tuvix, I'm not ready to assign you to the Bridge just yet, but why don't you join the senior staff for our noon briefing, and we'll see how it goes from there.

 

[Athena28]

I never had an issue with Janeway's decision.

 

[douwed]

Although I quite liked Tuvix, I also had no problem with Janeway's decision. I can understand why Tuvix wouldn't want it, but both Tuvok and Neelix were important members of the crew, their rights should not be ignored either.

 

[Oddish]

Although I quite liked Tuvix, I also had no problem with Janeway's decision. I can understand why Tuvix wouldn't want it, but both Tuvok and Neelix were important members of the crew, their rights should not be ignored either.

No, they shouldn't.

It was a terrible decision to have to make, and there was no good resolution. To paraphrase from one of DS9's lower quality efforts, I cannot condone what Janeway did... but I understand it.

 

[douwed]

I don't think it was a terrible decision to make at all. Janewaywas speaking for two People who couldn't speak themselves. I don't think either Tuvok or Neelix complained.

Janeway would have been damned no matter what she did. Otherwise people would have been in a fit why she wouldn't restore two cewmembers if she could.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I don't think it was a terrible decision to make at all. Janewaywas speaking for two People who couldn't speak themselves. I don't think either Tuvok or Neelix complained.

Janeway would have been damned no matter what she did. Otherwise people would have been in a fit why she wouldn't restore two cewmembers if she could.

Bullshit.

Janeway was going to let Tuvix live.

Then Kes talked her out of it.

She couldn't live without him.

6 months later, she dumps Neelix.

Lived without him fine.

 

[douwed]

And Janeway would know all of that at the time, how exactly? She had to make a choice and with the info at hand she made, what she thought at least, the best one.

Wouldn't you want the same if your partner had been blended with one of your friends?

 

[Mr.Mork]

Also, Janeway may have been considering Tuvok's wife and family back home. He was married with a family (grown adult children no doubt) but still part of Tuvok's life none the less. I think that would be more a consideration of her decision besides that of Kes missing Neelix. She may of had that on her mind as well.

 

[Guy Gardener]

And Janeway would know all of that at the time, how exactly? She had tomake a choice and with the info at hand she made, what she thought at least, the best one.

Wouldn't you want the same if your partner had been blended with one of your friends?

There's two ways of looking at Kes. A 2 year old with the life experiences of a two year old. A Mayflower who's point of view changes a dozens more times rapidly than a human.

In either case her concept of Love is pithy.

Also, Janeway may have been considering Tuvok's wife and family back home. He was married with a family (grown adult children no doubt) but still part of Tuvok's life none the less. I think that would be more a consideration of her decision besides that of Kes missing Neelix. She may of had that on her mind as well.

That's the point.

Kes was a place holder for T'Pel, which was one of the cited reasons why they should Kill Tuvix. Kes' outpouring of love, reminded Janeway that husbands and wives love each other.

 

[douwed]

Just because she was young is not a reason to dismiss her feelings so easily. Just because she is young doesn't mean her feelings are any less valid than the feelings of someone older.

Had I been in Kes's shoes I would want Neelix back as well.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Just because she was young is not a reason to dismiss her feelings so easily. Just because she is young doesn't mean her feelings are any less valid than the feelings of someone older.

Had I been in Kes's shoes I would want Neelix back as well.

Yeah, Janeway murdered Tuvix based on her stupid outburst. Had I been in Tuvix' shoes I would have deleted the doctor and replaced him with a clown act. The irony is that if Tuvix had done something like that the worst that could have happened to him is being confined in his quarters and likely not for long since that doesn't qualify as murder. At best it could be considered as destruction of Starfleet property which is not that big of an offense. Plus they couldn't keep him from leaving the ship which he should have done. With friends like these assholes who watched him taken away to be executed without as much as a peep, who needs enemies?

 

[Oddish]

Kes's reaction was very, poignantly real. She didn't just declare how badly she wanted Neelix back, she declared that Tuvix didn't deserve to die. She and the Doctor were the only ones to even acknowledge that. Compare it with Janeway's coldbloodedness and the other characters' not speaking a word of protest.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Kes's reaction was very, poignantly real. She didn't just declare how badly she wanted Neelix back, she declared that Tuvix didn't deserve to die. She and the Doctor were the only ones to even acknowledge that. Compare it with Janeway's coldbloodedness and the other characters' not speaking a word of protest.

Just imagine Janeway enters sickbay to execute Tuvix and suddenly the doctor turns into a clown unable to remember anything about medicine and making all sorts of stupid clown jokes (a la Neelix) and Tuvix with a big smile turning toward Janeway: "So what are you going to do now..."Captain"?"

 

[Oddish]

I prefer...

JANEWAY: "Mr. Tuvix, could you come with me please?"

TUVIX: "Computer, execute program Tuvix-one."

Zappp! The transporter engages and Tuvix disappears. Several small explosions around the bridge, no one is hurt.

JANEWAY: "What happened?"

AYALA: "He rigged a site to site transport."

CHAKOTAY: "He knew what we were thinking."

JANEWAY: "And planned ahead. Exactly what Tuvok would have done."

COMPUTER: "Unauthorized shuttle launch in Shuttle Bay 2."

CHAKOTAY: "Neelix's ship."

JANEWAY: "Tractor beam."

OPS CREWMAN (Kim is in sickbay): "Tractor beam is offline, captain. So are all long-range sensors."

PARIS: "Neelix's ship has cleared the shuttlebay... he's gone to warp."

JANEWAY: "Track that ship's warp signature. Prepare to pursue. He can't hope to outrun Voyager."

TORRES: "The warp core is locked in a diagnostic cycle, Captain. I'll need at least half an hour before we can go to warp."

CHAKOTAY: "That's not much of a head start."

JANEWAY: "Maybe not. But we're dealing with Neelix's vast knowledge of the quadrant, combined with Tuvok's trained mind. He won't be easy to find."

Tuvix escapes!

 

[MacLeod]

And Janeway would know all of that at the time, how exactly? She had to make a choice and with the info at hand she made, what she thought at least, the best one.

Wouldn't you want the same if your partner had been blended with one of your friends?

I think most of us would, but would you be ok with murdering someone to get them back?

Wherever you fall on the matter I think most of us can all agree that this has to be one of the most often debated episodes at least on this forum.

 

[DonIago]

As I've said before, and I'll probably say again, I think it would have been a sort of poetic justice if the procedure had failed and all three of them had died, and I consider it one of the EMH's finest moments when he tells Janeway he's sworn to do no harm and as such will not perform the procedure (in light of "Equinox", I'm trying to imagine how fans would have reacted if Janeway had proceeded to disable his ethical subroutines...).

I also wonder just how long Tuvix would have had to be alive before he would have been able to live with any sense that his life wasn't in imminent danger of being terminated, and I think it would have been far kinder to put him into stasis immediately rather than give him the illusion that his rights as a unique individual would be protected. Alternately, at least tell him from the get-go that his life is forfeit if they find a way to separate him.

Regarding whether he's a member of Starfleet or a civilian, I would think that a blended individual would tend to be regarded as the status that grants the most protection...so, in this case, a civilian. Though we have no idea what terms and conditions Neelix might have agreed to in order to be allowed to remain on Voyager.

 

[Oddish]

He agreed that he was under Janeway's command, most notably seen when he (almost eagerly) accepted her punishment detail in "Fair Trade".