Yeah, that sounds exhausting. I'm glad I don't do drama and stage craft any more.
Star Trek 2009-11 years later
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It was great when it all came together, though. And sometimes the odd thing happens... I ended up stapling a costume together when one of the seams came out and the actor couldn't find anyone on the costume crew. So he came up to me, standing by the props table and asked for help. I said sorry, but I don't have any needles or thread, and he said to use whatever I had. Duct tape would have shown up, and the only other thing I had handy was a stapler...
So one of the monks in "The King and I" went onstage in a stapled costume (which I'm sure was properly sewn back together once he rounded up someone on that crew; from that point on, I always made sure to carry a basic sewing kit - and ended up using it a time or two later).
Backstage improvisation is one of the things common to both stage and screen (as I remember reading about some of the last-minute stuff that happened on Star Trek when they either ran short on money or time).
@fireproof78, I just picked up the Kelvin Trilogy at Wal-Mart for $12 on a whim. I figured, "Why not?" And mainly because you, @F. King Daniel, and @Vger23 keep talking them up.
I don't know if I'll binge the whole trilogy tonight, I have to get up early for work tomorrow, but I should be able to get through the first two.
My memory of them is as faded as a pair of stone-washed jeans.
I don't know if I'll binge the whole trilogy tonight, I have to get up early for work tomorrow, but I should be able to get through the first two.
My memory of them is as faded as a pair of stone-washed jeans.
Well, this should be interesting.
I got half-way through these films, meaning I got up to the middle of Into Darkness before I had to cut it off due to time. I'll pick it up again tonight. Some interesting things. Some of it is similar to Discovery, some of it is the exact opposite. I liked the 2009 Film, as I said before. A couple of things aren't my style, but I see where they were going plot-wise. I'd give it a 7.5. Most of it came back to me. Some of it was a surprise because there were things I completely forgot about. On the Into Darkness front, Carol Marcus is looking at the weaponry the Enterprise has onboard. That's the point where I had to leave it.
A lot of interesting character bits I took mental note of in the first film-and-a-half. But they'll all have to wait. Except for this one: Cupcake's an asshole.
A lot of interesting character bits I took mental note of in the first film-and-a-half. But they'll all have to wait. Except for this one: Cupcake's an asshole.
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I used to like these movies more than I do today. They're still decent, but as the years roll by I've realized I was more in love with the potential than the pictures themselves. Time was, it seemed the Kelvinverse (which we didn't even have an official name for, ha) was the future of Star Trek. It was relatively easy for me to embrace that because I liked Star Trek (2009) and Star Trek Into Darkness just fine.
The lack of a television series offshoot was something I figured was merely a ticking clock; whenever CBS felt like revisiting, they'd find a way to shake hands with Paramount and to the Kelvinverse again we would go. Quietly, I always preferred the notion of returning to the Primeverse. But whatever, I'd take what I could get.
Now that the filmed Kelvinverse content amounts to just over six hours in total, and with no additional screentime coming anytime soon, the movies -- though they're certainly superior to a few of the Primeverse flicks -- have largely faded from my mind.
Still gotta give props to the casting, though. Genius stuff the whole way down.
The lack of a television series offshoot was something I figured was merely a ticking clock; whenever CBS felt like revisiting, they'd find a way to shake hands with Paramount and to the Kelvinverse again we would go. Quietly, I always preferred the notion of returning to the Primeverse. But whatever, I'd take what I could get.
Now that the filmed Kelvinverse content amounts to just over six hours in total, and with no additional screentime coming anytime soon, the movies -- though they're certainly superior to a few of the Primeverse flicks -- have largely faded from my mind.
Still gotta give props to the casting, though. Genius stuff the whole way down.
Okay, diving back into this. We're heading into the half of Into Darkness I didn't like back in '13. So far, except for a couple of minor things, it's been okay. But as soon as Spock screamed "KHANNN!!!!!!!" it was pretty much done for me, my last time watching. But we'll see what I think this time around... I feel like by the time this is done, I'll have to give different ratings for both halves of the film. But maybe not.
So far, the character beats for Into Darkness work a lot better for me this time around than they did before.
Besides the Pike stuff, my favorite scene in the first half of the film is Scotty at the bar. Totally where he'd be. If it were Rated R, he'd be telling Kirk to "fuck off" after not listening to him.
The in-joke of Chekov in a Red Shirt worked at the time but now... it used to be black humor, and... they couldn't have known. So let's leave it at that.
I never had a problem with Benedict Cumberbatch. I just didn't see him as Khan. But the performance, the actor, and as John Harrison, he's great. I like him better as a villain than Nero. I can look passed the "Khan" thing, and I could back then too.
So far, the character beats for Into Darkness work a lot better for me this time around than they did before.
Besides the Pike stuff, my favorite scene in the first half of the film is Scotty at the bar. Totally where he'd be. If it were Rated R, he'd be telling Kirk to "fuck off" after not listening to him.
The in-joke of Chekov in a Red Shirt worked at the time but now... it used to be black humor, and... they couldn't have known. So let's leave it at that.
I never had a problem with Benedict Cumberbatch. I just didn't see him as Khan. But the performance, the actor, and as John Harrison, he's great. I like him better as a villain than Nero. I can look passed the "Khan" thing, and I could back then too.
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Well, that went better than I expected.
I could've gone into the few issues I do have, but not in this type of thread. I'm not going to be the one who opens a can of worms. That's not what I do.
Pike is my favorite character in this. Spock's the runner-up. I grok Spock. Kirk has a lot of good points, but he's too aggressive. I think he's too quick to get into fist-fights when it's not necessary. Which I don't like. The Abrams Films show just how much influence Kirk's father had (or would've had) on his life. So Pike ends up having to become the surrogate father. Like I said, despite the part I don't like, I can see where they were going with it, and it makes narrative sense for the story they're telling.
But Cupcake is worse. He's Toxic Masculinity in ALL CAPITALS. He's an asshole, but he's supposed to be an asshole. Kind of like Biff in Back to the Future. So it works.
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I will give you props for not opening it up. I agree on Pike and Spock. Spock illustrates how I have felt for a large part of my life; "A child of two worlds." And, on that note Sarek was groslly missed in follow up films. RIP Ben Cross
I also agree that Kirk is representative of why he needed that father figure in his life, to curb that aggressive tendency. Something to be sharped in to a tool rather than a blunt instrument. I think that these films have at their core the need for a father type figure to support that process, even in a small capacity.
That said, I don't completely agree on Cupcake. I think Cupcake represents far more of an insular crowd, those who don't want outsiders on their turf. Maybe that falls under toxic masculinity; to be honest I don't know, and I don't care for the term. I think Cupcake simply didn't want a "townie" as part of his Starfleet.
I tend to think that under normal circumstances, Cupcake and Kirk wouldn't have had a problem with each other, they just both happened to be drunk and spoiling for a fight. Wrong place, wrong time.
I don't think Cupcake had a problem with "townies", as such, it was just a plain old barroom brawl...could have happened to anyone.
If they just ran into each other while on normal shipboard duties, I doubt there would have been any issues. Cupcake was, what, a full Lieutenant by that time? You don't get to be an officer like that if you don't have at least some measure of self-control...
Straying into non-canon-ville: In one of the comics, Kirk (after making Captain) goes to see Cupcake and asks him if anyone on the crew (Cupcake included) has a problem serving under him. Cupcake easily says no, there's no problem, although people are talking. Long story short - both men made peace and put the brawl behind them, it's already ancient history. "Toxic masculinity" types would probably never have gotten over it.
Besides, in a Starfleet comprised of officers and crew from hundreds of worlds, with wildly divergent cultures, the question of who's a "townie" and who isn't, loses most of its relevance...
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I'm up to the "KHANNN!" Scene. Leading up to it, looking at the scene on its own terms, it works. Seeing this version of Kirk and Spock begin to see eye-to-eye versus earlier in the film where they couldn't see further apart if they tried. So there was character growth for both of them.
I wish Spock didn't do that yell. I really wish he didn't do that yell. It undercuts the whole scene. Even in TWOK, in 1982, that yell was a Camp Scene while Spock's death was Dead Serious. The two don't tonally match and were never meant to go together, and the real reason why I don't think that line (or its delivery) works where it is in Into Darkness either.
Otherwise, aside from that one thing, Kirk and Spock came really far in just the space of three-quarters of a film. Three-quarters. I thought that part of the film happened mid-way through for reason.
A few things I completely forgot about earlier. Like the after picked up where I left off yesterday, I saw that the 72 torpedoes had the Augments in them. Completely forgot about that.
Another scene I completely forgot about was Scotty sabotaging the weapons on the Vengeance. So that threw me for a nice loop. And the Vengeance looks of like the Excelsior. So there's Scotty sabotaging another ship and pull through for the Enterprise! To quote Scotty in TSFS, "The more they overthinking the plumbing, the easier it is to stuff up the drain."
Switching to something completely different, there is a ton of eye-candy on ID, the type of which we'd never see in DSC. All I'll say about that too, because ID doesn't linger for too too long like a dirty-old perv. Just long enough that it gave me a little pause. And I do not like McCoy calling Carol Marcus "sweetheart." The way they handled a lot of scenes with Carol basically boiled down to, "Look at Carol! She's the girl! And she's a scientist! But she's also a girl!" Uhura to an extent too. She's strong and assertive, but her main role is emotional support for the men. In DSC, that's not the case. But back to Carol Marcus, it's not her that's the problem, it's the silly way the male characters can act around her.
This is starting to sound negative. Switching to the more positive.
I feel like in this Into Darkness, the crew gets along a lot better.
In TOS, Spock was never in an ongoing romantic relationship. He could afford to be totally emotionless, or present the appearance of such, and not have to worry about what his partner would think. Whereas here, Uhura gets to rightfully point out to Spock that she didn't even think about her when he was willing to sacrifice himself. So I like that they're able to take Spock where in these films that they couldn't in TOS because here they can take advantage of the new dynamic they've put him in.
I also like the use of color in this film on the Enterprise. The interior lighting, in a lot of areas, is very reminiscent of TOS.
Right before Kirk sacrifices himself, it feels less like a Transformers movie than what I thought the first time. So that's a plus too.
EDITED TO ADD (before I forget): Admiral Marcus is fine. He's a Typical Badmiral. And I like him better in that type of role than Dougherty in Insurrection.
These thoughts of mine look out of order, but I'm tying them as they occur to me in order to keep the reaction fresh. Some stuff I'm leaving out on purpose, like Section 31. But interesting stuff I noticed there too. That I took mental note of.
I wish Spock didn't do that yell. I really wish he didn't do that yell. It undercuts the whole scene. Even in TWOK, in 1982, that yell was a Camp Scene while Spock's death was Dead Serious. The two don't tonally match and were never meant to go together, and the real reason why I don't think that line (or its delivery) works where it is in Into Darkness either.
Otherwise, aside from that one thing, Kirk and Spock came really far in just the space of three-quarters of a film. Three-quarters. I thought that part of the film happened mid-way through for reason.
A few things I completely forgot about earlier. Like the after picked up where I left off yesterday, I saw that the 72 torpedoes had the Augments in them. Completely forgot about that.
Another scene I completely forgot about was Scotty sabotaging the weapons on the Vengeance. So that threw me for a nice loop. And the Vengeance looks of like the Excelsior. So there's Scotty sabotaging another ship and pull through for the Enterprise! To quote Scotty in TSFS, "The more they overthinking the plumbing, the easier it is to stuff up the drain."
Switching to something completely different, there is a ton of eye-candy on ID, the type of which we'd never see in DSC. All I'll say about that too, because ID doesn't linger for too too long like a dirty-old perv. Just long enough that it gave me a little pause. And I do not like McCoy calling Carol Marcus "sweetheart." The way they handled a lot of scenes with Carol basically boiled down to, "Look at Carol! She's the girl! And she's a scientist! But she's also a girl!" Uhura to an extent too. She's strong and assertive, but her main role is emotional support for the men. In DSC, that's not the case. But back to Carol Marcus, it's not her that's the problem, it's the silly way the male characters can act around her.
This is starting to sound negative. Switching to the more positive.
I feel like in this Into Darkness, the crew gets along a lot better.
In TOS, Spock was never in an ongoing romantic relationship. He could afford to be totally emotionless, or present the appearance of such, and not have to worry about what his partner would think. Whereas here, Uhura gets to rightfully point out to Spock that she didn't even think about her when he was willing to sacrifice himself. So I like that they're able to take Spock where in these films that they couldn't in TOS because here they can take advantage of the new dynamic they've put him in.
I also like the use of color in this film on the Enterprise. The interior lighting, in a lot of areas, is very reminiscent of TOS.
Right before Kirk sacrifices himself, it feels less like a Transformers movie than what I thought the first time. So that's a plus too.
EDITED TO ADD (before I forget): Admiral Marcus is fine. He's a Typical Badmiral. And I like him better in that type of role than Dougherty in Insurrection.
These thoughts of mine look out of order, but I'm tying them as they occur to me in order to keep the reaction fresh. Some stuff I'm leaving out on purpose, like Section 31. But interesting stuff I noticed there too. That I took mental note of.
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So, back in 2013, I really hated the Spock vs. Khan Scene because I thought it was ridiculous. In 2021, I like it (even though I don't care for how it got there) because a fight between a Vulcan and an Augment looks like a fight that was just waiting to be put on film. Superior Strength vs. Superior Strength.
And then Kirk's saved. I had issue with how silly this was in 2013 too. But, in 2021, if I can accept Gollum Picard, I can accept Khan-Blood-Revived Kirk.
So, I came out of Into Darkness liking it more than I thought I would. I expected to give this something like a 3 or 4. I'll call it... hmmmm.... I'll go with a 6.5 or 7? I'm kind of torn. Let's split the difference: 6.75. No. I'll round to 7. I have issues but they don't detract from my overall enjoyment. 7 it is. Which is twice the rating I thought I'd give it. There you have it.
Unlike what happened with today, I don't have to get up early tomorrow. So onto Beyond!
And then Kirk's saved. I had issue with how silly this was in 2013 too. But, in 2021, if I can accept Gollum Picard, I can accept Khan-Blood-Revived Kirk.
So, I came out of Into Darkness liking it more than I thought I would. I expected to give this something like a 3 or 4. I'll call it... hmmmm.... I'll go with a 6.5 or 7? I'm kind of torn. Let's split the difference: 6.75. No. I'll round to 7. I have issues but they don't detract from my overall enjoyment. 7 it is. Which is twice the rating I thought I'd give it. There you have it.
Unlike what happened with today, I don't have to get up early tomorrow. So onto Beyond!
But, that's part of the culture of Starfleet. Starfleet is its own distinct life, it's own culture. Even if Starfleet isn't a military (not the thread for that) there will still be a different attitude between those who serve and those who don't. So, outside of Starfleet, everyone could potentially be a "townie" depending on one's point of view. I mean, even the comics highlight differences from different departments. Hendorff just sees Kirk as an outsider at that point, and Kirk does nothing to make that any easier.
I like Carol Marcus a whole lot and I think her and Uhura got one or two good scenes in ID. But, it just lacks something to really cement that down. I think that once Marcus is off the ship she looses a lot of relevance to the overall plot, which is unfortunate. Uhura comes out a little better, both with the Klingon scene and her willingness to stop Spock from killing Khan.
I too was disappointed that Marcus was not in Beyond.
Glad you found some enjoyment in it.
Yes, I'd say Into Darkness fared much better on re-watch than Nemesis did. A 7 versus a 5.
Not a surprise when I think about it. I always thought the Kelvin Films worked better as movies than the TNG Films did. It mainly helps that they had movie people making these, with characters who translate to the Big Screen a lot better.
I don't know. Maybe I had a bad day when I was watching this in 2013. It's either that, or DSC and PIC didn't exist yet, so maybe they probably shifted my perspective. This is definitely not what I thought of the movie back then.
It's not often that my overall opinion of a film shifts that much. Even stranger, since a good number of the issues I had remained intact. But they didn't impact what I thought as much this time.
EDITED TO ADD: Most other fans would've either doubled-down on what they thought before or taken the route of, "This isn't so bad compared to the crap that's out there now!" Neither of these applied here. So I'm not stuck in those traps so many fall into.
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i still find that sequence, and basically everything from Kirk going to kickrepair the enterprise, incredibly bad.
Star Trek Beyond saw my opinion change the least. I got half-way through it last night before I started to get too tired. So I'll finish it off today. The issues I had with Kirk in the first two movies aren't here and they weren't before either. It's a fun joyride with some serious beats to it, but that's it. When I get to end of film, I think it'll be like "When the ride is done, it's done". But the film itself doesn't feel like "The End of a Trilogy". It feels more like it's just a threequel. They could've continued.
Two observations so far:
1) The uniforms they wear on the Yorktown look kind of like the 32nd Century uniforms on Discovery. I know it's not six months yet, but I'm not spoiling anything by saying Starfleet would have a different uniform by then. While the uniforms Kirk and Chekov have when they land on planet's surface look kind of like the main DSC uniforms. So I have to think DSC looked to this film for its inspiration when designing their uniforms. They're too similar to be a coincidence.
2) The Enterprise was destroyed the quickest and the slowest at the same time. It's like it was quickly being devoured by piranhas, but what they were really doing was destroying parts of it really quickly as opposed to the whole. That's something different. Kirk's last look at the Enterprise bridge before he gets into the escape pod reminds me, of all things, of when Sisko took one last look at the Defiant's bridge in "The Changing Face of Evil" (DS9) before it was destroyed.
Two observations so far:
1) The uniforms they wear on the Yorktown look kind of like the 32nd Century uniforms on Discovery. I know it's not six months yet, but I'm not spoiling anything by saying Starfleet would have a different uniform by then. While the uniforms Kirk and Chekov have when they land on planet's surface look kind of like the main DSC uniforms. So I have to think DSC looked to this film for its inspiration when designing their uniforms. They're too similar to be a coincidence.
2) The Enterprise was destroyed the quickest and the slowest at the same time. It's like it was quickly being devoured by piranhas, but what they were really doing was destroying parts of it really quickly as opposed to the whole. That's something different. Kirk's last look at the Enterprise bridge before he gets into the escape pod reminds me, of all things, of when Sisko took one last look at the Defiant's bridge in "The Changing Face of Evil" (DS9) before it was destroyed.
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I love that Avasarala (the immensely talented Shohreh Aghdashloo) from The Expanse is the admiral in Beyond.
I’ve never enjoyed Beyond quite as much as its predecessors. It’s a fun enough ride. There’s some nifty character work between Spock and Bones. I like how it connects to Enterprise. There’s nothing truly bad about the movie except, perhaps, for how woefully it wastes Idris Elba — his villain is somewhat bland but more egregiously he clearly has a difficult time acting through those prosthetics.
That’s about it. It doesn’t really move me at all. I recall comments back in ‘16 about how it was better to have an adventure that’s thinner on the stakes and Hollywood octane than two failures to achieve such results. I don’t entirely agree (especially since I dig the first movie a fair bit).
As unfair as it is, I think I would reflect more positively on this one if it weren’t increasingly likely to be the final Kelvinverse adventure. It’s too modest a sendoff with such blatant seeding for further films. Not its fault at all, but yeah.
I’ve never enjoyed Beyond quite as much as its predecessors. It’s a fun enough ride. There’s some nifty character work between Spock and Bones. I like how it connects to Enterprise. There’s nothing truly bad about the movie except, perhaps, for how woefully it wastes Idris Elba — his villain is somewhat bland but more egregiously he clearly has a difficult time acting through those prosthetics.
That’s about it. It doesn’t really move me at all. I recall comments back in ‘16 about how it was better to have an adventure that’s thinner on the stakes and Hollywood octane than two failures to achieve such results. I don’t entirely agree (especially since I dig the first movie a fair bit).
As unfair as it is, I think I would reflect more positively on this one if it weren’t increasingly likely to be the final Kelvinverse adventure. It’s too modest a sendoff with such blatant seeding for further films. Not its fault at all, but yeah.
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