Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

[Guy Gardener]

In the comics Isiah predates Steve Rogers.

He's the original Captain America.

They tested the formula on black people to make sure that it was safe to use on whites.

That could still be true?

 

[Anwar]

So now after that bit with Bucky and Karli in the truck, some folks are thinking they'll end up together.

First him and Shuri, now this. Folks seem to want Bucky to be robbing the cradle, even if he wasn't over 100 years old...

I like how sympathetic they're treating the Flag Smashers. In other shows, you'd think they were heroes. But they're really coming off as "Underdog helpers of the common people" types.

And Walker, he's not the Lapdog I assumed he'd be written as.

Anyone get a Hannibal Lector thing from Zemo at the end?

 

[Seven of Five]

Bucky and Sam bickering at the psychiatrist's office was hilarious, as was the staring competition.

A good step up after last week, with even more action and more Marvel banter, making this show a little closer to an actual MCU film.

 

[thribs]

So is Steve dead? If not they could always ask him.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

In the comics Isiah predates Steve Rogers.

He's the original Captain America.

They tested the formula on black people to make sure that it was safe to use on whites.

That could still be true?

I thought the same thing considering there's real life history of medicine tested on Black people first (which is why there's mistrust for the vaccine in the Black community right now).

I don't know if that's the direction they'll go in here but it was definitely on my mind during that scene.

 

[Tuskin38]

Wow, what a coincidence, I was just reading about Isaiah a week or two ago

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Wow, what a coincidence, I was just reading about Isaiah a week or two ago

Funny thing, I actually read a random Marvel Zombies mini-series this morning before watching this episode. It featured Battlestar, a character who I'd literally never even heard of before, yet not an hour later here he is again in the show.

 

[FreezeC77]

I thought the same thing considering there's real life history of medicine tested on Black people first (which is why there's mistrust for the vaccine in the Black community right now).

I don't know if that's the direction they'll go in here but it was definitely on my mind during that scene.

I think that's the direction they will go, but I think the backstory will be altered. I believe the comics is that these black super soldiers happened AFTER Steve got it (at least in the storyline involving the emergence of Eli Bradley(Isiah's grandson) as a Young Avenger that I read in the last 15-20 years or so.

We already have Bucky and him talking about how they fought each other in the KOREAN WAR. So that's a sizeable depature. We also have Isaiah saying I believe he was locked up for 30 years. In the comics he was locked up 17 years (from 1943 to 1960) after stealing the Captain America costume/shield and wearing it on his final WW2 mission. Although that was more of an excuse because the military actually EXECUTED and covered up the entire 'black super soldier camp/missions'

In the comics it's also shown that Isaiah wasn't exactly a complete secret and the Black community knew of him as the 'black Captain America. Many other Black superheroes (including Falcon) knew about Isaiah Bradley.


So I think this version will probably play out like after losing Captain America in WW2 the US Government continued the Super Soldier Serum research to try to duplicate it and that continued through the 40s and eventually in the late 40s or early 50s as the Korean War broke out the US tested it on a group of black soldiers .

The US Military didn't fully integrate until the end of the 1950s. There were still actually separate black units in the late 40s and even into the 50s in some of the Army and Marines.

 

[Xerxes82]

So now after that bit with Bucky and Karli in the truck, some folks are thinking they'll end up together.

First him and Shuri, now this. Folks seem to want Bucky to be robbing the cradle, even if he wasn't over 100 years old...

Meh. If we have to have a Winter Soldier romance, I'd prefer it be someone like Leah the sushi girl. A nice, normal woman to ground Bucky outside of the spy/superhero life. Basically like Laura Barton. A counterpoint to all the crazy and traumatic in his life.

But honestly, his bromance with Sam is all the chemistry I need. They are the best married couple on TV, right now.

 

[Anwar]

I think that's the direction they will go, but I think the backstory will be altered. I believe the comics is that these black super soldiers happened AFTER Steve got it (at least in the storyline involving the emergence of Eli Bradley(Isiah's grandson) as a Young Avenger that I read in the last 15-20 years or so.

We already have Bucky and him talking about how they fought each other in the KOREAN WAR. So that's a sizeable depature. We also have Isaiah saying I believe he was locked up for 30 years. In the comics he was locked up 17 years (from 1943 to 1960) after stealing the Captain America costume/shield and wearing it on his final WW2 mission. Although that was more of an excuse because the military actually EXECUTED and covered up the entire 'black super soldier camp/missions'

In the comics it's also shown that Isaiah wasn't exactly a complete secret and the Black community knew of him as the 'black Captain America. Many other Black superheroes (including Falcon) knew about Isaiah Bradley.


So I think this version will probably play out like after losing Captain America in WW2 the US Government continued the Super Soldier Serum research to try to duplicate it and that continued through the 40s and eventually in the late 40s or early 50s as the Korean War broke out the US tested it on a group of black soldiers .

The US Military didn't fully integrate until the end of the 1950s. There were still actually separate black units in the late 40s and even into the 50s in some of the Army and Marines.

Makes you wonder if we'll ever see William Burnside in the MCU.

 

[FPAlpha]

So now after that bit with Bucky and Karli in the truck, some folks are thinking they'll end up together.

First him and Shuri, now this. Folks seem to want Bucky to be robbing the cradle, even if he wasn't over 100 years old...

Uhm what? She kicked his ass on the truck and is a terrorist/freedom fighter ( depends who you ask).

Also why would Bucky be a cradle robber? Technically he's supersenior age but then again his life was put on hold in his 20s, he alternately was put on ice or brainwashed so he couldn't live out his life. His body is still somewhere in his late 20s or early 30s and i don't think his Winter Soldier time counts as having had a real life.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I think that's the direction they will go, but I think the backstory will be altered. I believe the comics is that these black super soldiers happened AFTER Steve got it (at least in the storyline involving the emergence of Eli Bradley(Isiah's grandson) as a Young Avenger that I read in the last 15-20 years or so.

We already have Bucky and him talking about how they fought each other in the KOREAN WAR. So that's a sizeable depature. We also have Isaiah saying I believe he was locked up for 30 years. In the comics he was locked up 17 years (from 1943 to 1960) after stealing the Captain America costume/shield and wearing it on his final WW2 mission. Although that was more of an excuse because the military actually EXECUTED and covered up the entire 'black super soldier camp/missions'

In the comics it's also shown that Isaiah wasn't exactly a complete secret and the Black community knew of him as the 'black Captain America. Many other Black superheroes (including Falcon) knew about Isaiah Bradley.


So I think this version will probably play out like after losing Captain America in WW2 the US Government continued the Super Soldier Serum research to try to duplicate it and that continued through the 40s and eventually in the late 40s or early 50s as the Korean War broke out the US tested it on a group of black soldiers .

The US Military didn't fully integrate until the end of the 1950s. There were still actually separate black units in the late 40s and even into the 50s in some of the Army and Marines.

That makes a lot of sense and I think you might be right (or at least I hope you're right). I only know Isaiah peripherally and from what read about him in Christopher Priest's short run of The Crew.

Meh. If we have to have a Winter Soldier romance, I'd prefer it be someone like Leah the sushi girl. A nice, normal woman to ground Bucky outside of the spy/superhero life. Basically like Laura Barton. A counterpoint to all the crazy and traumatic in his life.

But honestly, his bromance with Sam is all the chemistry I need. They are the best married couple on TV, right now.

That's how I would like it, too, if there's a romance at all. Like you said, the chemistry between Sam and Bucky is all I need for now.

 

[Anwar]

Uhm what? She kicked his ass on the truck and is a terrorist/freedom fighter ( depends who you ask).

Also why would Bucky be a cradle robber? Technically he's supersenior age but then again his life was put on hold in his 20s, he alternately was put on ice or brainwashed so he couldn't live out his life. His body is still somewhere in his late 20s or early 30s and i don't think his Winter Soldier time counts as having had a real life.

Well, because Shuri is a teenager and I'm pretty sure the Flag Smashers are all supposed to be very young people themselves. Barely out of their teens.

 

[JD]

I don't get the Karli/Bucky thing at all, the only interaction they had was a fight, and she's one of the bad guys.
Walker was not at all what I was expecting, he was actually pretty likeable, up until the end, where we did get our first hint of him being less than pleasant.
Loved the fight on the trucks.
Sam and Bucky's therapy session was hilarious.
The stuff with Isaiah Bradley was a surprise.

 

[FPAlpha]

Well, because Shuri is a teenager and I'm pretty sure the Flag Smashers are all supposed to be very young people themselves. Barely out of their teens.

Is this based on the comics? Because MCU Shuri and Karli are in their 20s, so i would say fair game even if Bucky didn't have any scenes alone with Shuri in the MCU.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

...even if Bucky didn't have any scenes alone with Shuri in the MCU.

They did in the Black Panther post-credits scene and it's clear they've known each for awhile.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

This is tangential but I imagine Wyatt Russell would make a decent Ash in an Evil Dead project.

In the comics Isiah predates Steve Rogers.

He's the original Captain America.

They tested the formula on black people to make sure that it was safe to use on whites.

That could still be true?

interesting idea

 

[Guy Gardener]

So if they had the super Soldier serum in the 50’s after Steve, why was Bruce helping to develop one in the 00’s. You mean him becoming the Hulk was avoidable?

Hydra didn't want the US to have any Super Soldiers. They wanted endless styfe, not certain and swift victory by one side or the other.

Having a guess here:
It’s a low quality serum.
The serum by itself enhances people to a degree.
It’s the combination with Vitarays that made Steve so much more enhanced than everyone else.
With the Russians basically developing their own serum (or stealing it), it was part of an arms race to replicate the better one.
That’s where Banner and his Gamma ray work comes in.
It’s head canon explanation, but makes sense.

In the comics the serum is defective and eventually cripples Elijah Bradley winds up in a wheel chair.

His mental health didn't seem so great, but that could just be from 10 years in jail.

 

[Relayer1]

I don't get the Karli/Bucky thing at all, the only interaction they had was a fight, and she's one of the bad guys.

Antagonist certainly, but "bad guy" ?

 

[Noname Given]

Wow! Loved it front to back. I really enjoy how they are weaving existing comics lore in a new way here. The action was top notch again (very cinematic too); and the 'couples therapy session'...

I also enjoy the fact that overall none of it feels 'forced' (IE everyone's not just running into each other because the plot requires it). They're doing a good jobs with all the various character motivations here from every angle. So far it just feels like a good MCU feature film here.

And it does bring up another issue unique that I doubt they'll ever touch. IF Steve Rogers (the time traveler) lived his life with Peggy to the present day (and no, it's not related to Peggy Carter in CA:TWS as she obviously had terrible Alzheimer's and it was shown she couldn't even recall that Steve had been found - and he stopped seeing her because it put a mental strain on her whenever he visited and she 'saw him again for the first time...' over and over). It's that either Steve really was good at being a 'regular guy' and staying out of it (which would go against his character IMO) - OR he knew/discovered a lot of what various associates had been hiding (like the 1950ies US and USSR super soldier programs); and if the latter is the case, it puts a real interesting spin on Steve Roger's final scene wit Sam Wilson at the end of 'Avenger's Endgame'.

But yeah, I expected to like this series; but I REALLY like this series so far.