Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

[DarKush]

Really liking this series so far. I knew that Isaiah Bradley was going to be part of the series, but I wasn't expecting him so soon. Carl Lumbly is a great choice, and it reminded me of his time as MANTIS so it was neat seeing Mackie and Lumbly together. I'm not going to say it was a torch passing scene, but still nice to see them together, and I'm looking forward to getting some flashbacks or Bradley in the action before the series is over.

I loved the Truth miniseries and the suggestion that they could adapt it for a live-action miniseries was a great one.

I wasn't expecting Bucky or Falcon to meet the new Captain America so quickly. Also wasn't expecting Battlestar to be involved so early either, or for the four of them to get dusted by the Flag Smasher super soldiers.

I'm liking the somewhat sympathetic take on John Walker and his relationship with Lemar Hoskins, which is a mirror-soon to be dark I'm sure-of Rogers and Wilson, and to lesser extent Bucky and Falcon. Wasn't expecting Walker to be married either, so I imagine something unfortunate will happen to his wife and push him over the edge. I can already see him wanting to get some form of the serum to keep up with the Flag Smashers and other enemies as well.

I noticed that the Flag Smasher leader is the same actress that played Emfys Nest in Solo, so it's nice she's still in the Disney family. Curious to see how they are going to reintroduce Sharon Carter after wasting her in the films. If nothing else, they missed an opportunity to put her on Agents of Shield between films or do a spin off series with her instead of that Mockingbird pilot they made. Nothing against Mockingbird, who I thought was handled fairly well from what I saw of her on Shield, but Carter needed more screen time and development. If anything, I wish they hadn't given Hawkeye a family so Mockingbird could be his ex wife and be on that series, in between The Orville seasons now.

So far I haven't seen any major missteps with this series and I hope they can keep it going.

 

[wayoung]

Wasn't the actress who played Sharon Carter already the lead in a different Disney show for most of AoS's runtime? Hard to be in two shows at once.

Really liking this series so far. I knew that Isaiah Bradley was going to be part of the series, but I wasn't expecting him so soon. Carl Lumbly is a great choice, and it reminded me of his time as MANTIS so it was neat seeing Mackie and Lumbly together. I'm not going to say it was a torch passing scene, but still nice to see them together, and I'm looking forward to getting some flashbacks or Bradley in the action before the series is over.

I loved the Truth miniseries and the suggestion that they could adapt it for a live-action miniseries was a great one.

I wasn't expecting Bucky or Falcon to meet the new Captain America so quickly. Also wasn't expecting Battlestar to be involved so early either, or for the four of them to get dusted by the Flag Smasher super soldiers.

I'm liking the somewhat sympathetic take on John Walker and his relationship with Lemar Hoskins, which is a mirror-soon to be dark I'm sure-of Rogers and Wilson, and to lesser extent Bucky and Falcon. Wasn't expecting Walker to be married either, so I imagine something unfortunate will happen to his wife and push him over the edge. I can already see him wanting to get some form of the serum to keep up with the Flag Smashers and other enemies as well.

I noticed that the Flag Smasher leader is the same actress that played Emfys Nest in Solo, so it's nice she's still in the Disney family. Curious to see how they are going to reintroduce Sharon Carter after wasting her in the films. If nothing else, they missed an opportunity to put her on Agents of Shield between films or do a spin off series with her instead of that Mockingbird pilot they made. Nothing against Mockingbird, who I thought was handled fairly well from what I saw of her on Shield, but Carter needed more screen time and development. If anything, I wish they hadn't given Hawkeye a family so Mockingbird could be his ex wife and be on that series, in between The Orville seasons now.

So far I haven't seen any major missteps with this series and I hope they can keep it going.

 

[Tuskin38]

So why was Bucky just allowed to walk onto that Air Force base?

Because he's an Avenger?

 

[Nerys Myk]

So why was Bucky just allowed to walk onto that Air Force base?

Because he's an Avenger?

As a veteran he has access to military bases. All has to do is show his military ID. Or at least that's how it worked for my Dad after he retired.

 

[valkyrie013]

Real good so far, loving the chemistry between Bucky and Sam, and can see why Bucky is P/O'd at Sam for getting rid of the shield.. Shows Steve may have been wrong, so if he's wrong on 1 thing, then what about me? Interesting.
Only part I was like What? was the cops harrasing Sam.. Really? That was not needed. It was good enough with the kid calling Sam Black Falcon and him saying, just Falcon..

 

[JD]

Curious to see how they are going to reintroduce Sharon Carter after wasting her in the films. If nothing else, they missed an opportunity to put her on Agents of Shield between films or do a spin off series with her instead of that Mockingbird pilot they made. Nothing against Mockingbird, who I thought was handled fairly well from what I saw of her on Shield, but Carter needed more screen time and development. If anything, I wish they hadn't given Hawkeye a family so Mockingbird could be his ex wife and be on that series, in between The Orville seasons now.

So far I haven't seen any major missteps with this series and I hope they can keep it going.

Wasn't the actress who played Sharon Carter already the lead in a different Disney show for most of AoS's runtime? Hard to be in two shows at once.

Emily Van Camp was the lead on the ABC series Revenge from 2011 to 2015, so it overlapped with The Winter Soldier and the first two seasons of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

So why was Bucky just allowed to walk onto that Air Force base?

Because he's an Avenger?

My father was in the Air Force stationed in England during Vietnam. My family went to England in the summer of '85 for a mini-reunion and we were able to get on the base with Dad's old service ID. That, and the fact they knew we were coming.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My mom still gets to shop at a nearby base even though my father passed almost twenty years ago.

 

[valkyrie013]

There was a golf course on my old base, all civilians had to do was show ID at the gate and sign in, and they were given free reign of the base, and the Flight line at the time wasn't manned with any guards unless there were certain classified planes on the tarmac.
So, yes, he could get on base relatively easily, and get to the flight line.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I found my old dependent's ID from 1972 recently. I don't think it still works though.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
Episode 2: "The Star-Spangled Man"

Sam/Falcon: I'm certain some viewers expected Sam to support Bradley's angry comments and believe they were meant for Bucky, but he misunderstood with his "Don't take that to heart", as he (Bradley) was referring to Hydra as Bucky's people at one point.

Bucky/Winter Soldier: Interesting sides of Bucky: he seemed genuinely hurt that Sam did not honor Steve's wishes to carry on as the next Captain America, even going so far as to say (during the forced therapy session) "..if he was wrong about you, then he was wrong about me!" In a way, it was a slight (and painful) compliment, as he's holding Sam--or Steve's belief in Sam--to a higher standard than himself.

The psychiatrist seems to be ignorant of the reasons behind the tension between Bucky and Sam; clearly, its about (to a large degree) the connection to / understanding of Steve. Competitive, but in a sense of loss, anyone would play the "I'm closer to him, so I'm in greater pain / I know what he wanted" psychological one-upmanship.

John Walker / Cap 2.0 & Lemar Hoskins Battlestar: Nice set-up--Walker introduced as the humble guy just trying to do the job given to him, only to quickly turn into a possessive, territory-marking idiot. He--and Hoskins--should be in for an awakening they did not get in their first fight with the Flag Smashers. I look forward to Sam taking the shield from him...

The Flag-Smashers / Dovich / Karli Morgenthau: Karli is sold as the sort-of "reasonable" member of the group, but her grand plan hardly makes her sympathetic, just another face of terrorist behavior wearing the trappings of the "freedom fighter".

Isaiah Bradley: I can easily understand his hostility toward Bucky (and by extension, most white people) after he was used in every way to serve a nation that treated hm like a criminal, no matter what service he provided for--frankly--their interests, not those of his own people.

Then, this exchange punctuated his anger:

Bucky: "I'm not a killer anymore."
Bradley: "You think you can wake up one day and decide who you want to be? It doesn't work like that...well, maybe it does for folks like you."

It is about time a subject cutting deep into the American identity (rather, what it is not in consideration of its history) is laid out in the open in the MC/TVU.

NOTES:
In just two years, we have two superhero TV series using plots involving black men being used for super soldier / enhancement programs during World War Two, and subjected to typical white government abuse for their troubles. As recent as Black Lightning's third season (Episode 14 - "The Book of War: Chapter One: Homecoming") , the villain Tyson Sykes aka "Gravedigger" revealed he--the first confirmed natural metahuman--had served during WWII (with every U.S. President from FDR-forward knowing about experiments), but Sykes--unlike Bradley--left America to work with an enemy government, knowing he--and his people--would never be treated like people in America. While the Bradley character has a history in the comics, its timely and important that two current superhero series explore the idea and history of U.S.experiments on largely unwilling black people.

Not much has been said about Joaquin Torres (MC/TVU character only) but I hope he's not killed off. He just seems like the kind of character who might meet an untimely end, and not go the fantastical route of the published version...

Sam and Bucky on their way to talking Zemo. That should be very interesting.

GRADE: A.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not much has been said about Joaquin Torres (MC/TVU character only) but I hope he's not killed off. He just seems like the kind of character who might meet an untimely end, and not go the fantastical route of the published version...

Torres could inherit the the name and wings of the Falcon if Sam goes full Cap.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

^That's a good point.

 

[theenglish]

I'm enjoying this show so much that I wish it was an ongoing series. I like the contrast with Wandavision and that the MCU hasn't forgotten the other threads to its larger universe.

 

[Saul]

Very solid episode. Very buddy cop showish. Walker comes off as a good guy but also an extremely annoying one.

Only part I was like What? was the cops harrasing Sam.. Really? That was not needed. It was good enough with the kid calling Sam Black Falcon and him saying, just Falcon..

When I watched it I thought that would be a scene that would have many differing opinions. I think it makes Sam even more relatable as a character. He is a hero but he still has to deal with this same unending shit that many have to. I know it's the MCU and people like the MCU for not being ultra real in terms of society but it's a scene many would appreciate. Maybe it felt out of place because you had black falcon, then the reveal with Isaiah and then the scene with the cops.

 

[DarKush]

Wasn't the actress who played Sharon Carter already the lead in a different Disney show for most of AoS's runtime? Hard to be in two shows at once.

Revenge ended in 2015. Shield just finished last year, so there was some time to incorporate her into Shield, one of the Netflix series, Runaways, Cloak & Dagger, or even Inhumans, if not giving her her own spin off.

 

[FreezeC77]

The black falcon scene reminded me of that Key & Peele skit which was a Power Rangers knock-off and the team kept calling the green falcon "black falcon" because he was black. Of course in the first US adapted Power Rangers the black ranger WAS THE BLACK GUY and the yellow ranger WAS AN ASIAN GIRL. So umm ya.

 

[Tosk]

I always liked that episode of Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law where Black Vulcan is on the stand, and he talks about how, "...I used to go by Super Vulcan, 'Black Vulcan' was Aquaman's idea. And I said 'Well then maybe we should just call you Whitefish!'"

Edit: Rewatched it, corrected quote.

 

[Anwar]

I've been watching the YouTuber reactions to this series, especially the "WTF?!" mass reaction compilations when Walker was first introduced at the end of episode 1.

To me, it's hilarious considering how 10 years ago a lot of people thought that a Captain America movie would be terrible, he'd be an awful character to see on screen and that Chris Evans absolutely would not work as Cap.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Only part I was like What? was the cops harrasing Sam.. Really? That was not needed.

The interviews from cast and crew have said race issues will be a part of this series, and we see that it is, starting in E1 with the Wilson financial issues / failure at the bank. The police scene is as relevant as one you will ever see in a MC/TVU production, since America has no end in sight of general harassment of black men by members of law enforcement. Like the bank representative, white behavior only changed when they realize Sam is the Falcon. Without that "protection," to the police, he's just another "aggressive black male" that needed to be met with suspicion and the potential for police violence.

Scenes like the one in question makes this a far better production, and not the random superhero romp.