I would imagine after the Dominion War the Federation had to get quite good at streamlining the shipbuilding process to recover from the losses suffered.
Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard
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And if ablative armor technology brought back from the alternate 25th century by Voyager had any impact that could also have made it possible to construct smaller, more powerful ships.
Fair point -- recouping from the losses of a most total war that we didn't even see the totality of, would pressure shipyards to churn out ships rather quickly, indeed.
And this is certainly a fair and valid point -- though again, I wouldn't say the Inquiry is very small with a length of 630 meters. Admittedly, I had imagined the Inquiry to be more along the lines of the Intrepid in scale rather than, well, the Sovereign. But here we are.
I guess the window size kind of gives it away. Those aren't Intrepid- or even Ambassador-class sized windows.
It's not that Starfleet has these 150 ships. Or even that it's so incredibly boring that they all look the same, including Riker's intended-badass command ship.
It's that sending 150 ships to this particular assignment seems like insane overkill. Surely fifty of these giants would have outgunned Oh's midgets twenty to one?
Furthermore, if Starfleet can send these 150, the fundamental Trek premise of only the hero ship being available at the nick of the time is badly eroded. Every adventure where Picard or Sisko had to beg in order to scrape together a fleet strengthens the case of the Enterprise or the Defiant representing the rational Starfleet at its best when investigating a mystery half a year or half a century too late and having zero backup available.
And previously Picard did beg here - and while he was shot down because he was an arrogant asshole, his opponent did argue, however dishonestly, that resources should not be wantonly allocated to him an sich, these being scarce. Picard sort of bought that argument, or at least didn't honestly consider that the root cause was him being in the wrong - he didn't call bullshit on that part of Clancy's refusal.
Timo Saloniemi
It's that sending 150 ships to this particular assignment seems like insane overkill. Surely fifty of these giants would have outgunned Oh's midgets twenty to one?
Furthermore, if Starfleet can send these 150, the fundamental Trek premise of only the hero ship being available at the nick of the time is badly eroded. Every adventure where Picard or Sisko had to beg in order to scrape together a fleet strengthens the case of the Enterprise or the Defiant representing the rational Starfleet at its best when investigating a mystery half a year or half a century too late and having zero backup available.
And previously Picard did beg here - and while he was shot down because he was an arrogant asshole, his opponent did argue, however dishonestly, that resources should not be wantonly allocated to him an sich, these being scarce. Picard sort of bought that argument, or at least didn't honestly consider that the root cause was him being in the wrong - he didn't call bullshit on that part of Clancy's refusal.
Timo Saloniemi
Is it the case,that the limits to building ships involve the labor to construct them plus any parts that can only be handmade?
Maybe Starfleet finally learned after all those years of "only ship in the sector/quadrant?"
Thiiiis is definitely a big part of my gripe, tacking onto the point of its size. The overkill of it all.
I’m not even certain there were 112+ Galaxy-class ships or Sovereign-class ships at Starfleet’s disposal at any point during the Dominion War; sending 112+ of their equivalent in a simple standoff over one planet is insane overkill — and it does sort of draw down the trope of the “hero ship saving the day” which was pretty flawlessly executed at the end of Lower Decks, but I guess my point is that I feel that it’s unlikely that Starfleet would be able to mass produce this many giant ships in 14 years, when even the Galaxy Class’ R+D took at least the better part of a decade (and that was, at the time, “the fastest, toughest, most powerful ship” in the fleet). Miranda-class ships, sure. You can churn a million of those out in the 2390s; they’re proven designs, “old reliables”. But if the Inquiry Class Starship Development Project started after the destruction of Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards, incorporating new technologies and advancements, even with a sort of speed-up in efficiency, I’d imagine a number in the low tens produced by 2399.
Honestly, that probably would’ve been more effective, too. “This few ships against that whole Zhat Vash fleet? And Riker isn’t bluffing? Damn, I can believe this.”
But, what did Starfleet learn from the whole Dominion War? To just replace those ships over time and hope that someone like the Dominion never comes along again? That the war based alliances would automatically hold?
I think it is more likely that Starfleet would take all that was learned from the Dominion War, and fast track it to bolster their numbers. It's not like the landscape was still the same as in TNG. The Gamma Quadrant had some exploration opportunities with peace with the Dominion, as well as exploring the Delta Quadrant with Voyager's return. They have more information to establish how they want to explore.
I would imagine the attack on Mars would also increase their production as well. Again, the Dominion War came on the heals of multiple Borg attacks, Romulan attack, among other conflicts. There was a clearly defined defensive need and Starfleet failing to address such a blind spot would just put them back to pre-Wolf 359 preparedness.
Starfleet didn't even know the Dominion itself existed until 2370 and even then they were just a rumor, a power somewhere inside the Gamma Quadrant with great reach and influence. It wasn't until 2371 that the true Dominion threat made itself known. That's less than three years before the official war began.
The Federation had little to no time to prepare for the greatest conflict in its history. If Starfleet is still taking chances in 2399 then it learned almost nothing from the Dominion War.
The Federation had little to no time to prepare for the greatest conflict in its history. If Starfleet is still taking chances in 2399 then it learned almost nothing from the Dominion War.
Yet starships are ponies.
Sure, Starfleet would want them. But we know it can't have them. Because, you know, otherwise it would have them.
Yet Starfleet is always starved of ships. War doesn't change that. Peace doesn't change that. Starfleet has seen both, and we have seen Starfleet, during and after both. The hero ship never has backup. The colony never is defended. The intruder never is stopped.
So the big question becomes, what changed so that something actually changed, for 2399?
And the answer probably isn't "Starfleet lost a whole planet's worth of shipbuilding capacity"...
Timo Saloniemi
Sure, Starfleet would want them. But we know it can't have them. Because, you know, otherwise it would have them.
Yet Starfleet is always starved of ships. War doesn't change that. Peace doesn't change that. Starfleet has seen both, and we have seen Starfleet, during and after both. The hero ship never has backup. The colony never is defended. The intruder never is stopped.
So the big question becomes, what changed so that something actually changed, for 2399?
And the answer probably isn't "Starfleet lost a whole planet's worth of shipbuilding capacity"...
Timo Saloniemi
On top of more recent conflicts.
I saw one estimate of around 600 meters (before Eaglemoss cover was released) because of the window sizes. This is assuming the deck heights are similar to previous ships.
Having a single ship design, like we see Riker commanding, is tactical impotence. If all of the starships are the same, then any Threat Force spy would be able to steal the plans and then formulate battle strategies to defeat squadrons of the biggest, baddest Starfleet has ever built.
Different classes with different types of ships within those classes, allows a much better broader spectrum of coverage for starship use.
Perhaps the single ship design that Starfleet incorporated in Picard, carried over to the day of the Burn and could have been instrumental in why not a single Federation starship, other than the ones at the 32nd SF century HQ, survived.
Different classes with different types of ships within those classes, allows a much better broader spectrum of coverage for starship use.
Perhaps the single ship design that Starfleet incorporated in Picard, carried over to the day of the Burn and could have been instrumental in why not a single Federation starship, other than the ones at the 32nd SF century HQ, survived.
If you put the first one in front of me I would say it is from Mass Effect. I do like the paint job more than what we got though.An article on designing La Sirena. So, John Eaves didn't design her.
https://ca.startrek.com/news/designing-the-la-sirena
One of her names during the concept phase was 'Cosmic Spider' in Spanish, 'Arana Cosmica'
If asked what the second is I would say a combat craft.
An easy answer would be Starfleet stopped putting everyone through officer training. Enlisted like O'Brien are the exception, even though he did having academy training despite not being an officer, everyone else has to go through an extremely selective test like what Wesley Crusher and Picard failed the first time. We see only three or so people take the test, and only one got accepted, and that was the only test for the entire planet, or maybe solar system.
If Starfleet reduced the requirements then they could triple the number of cadets in one stroke. If they did only targeted training for an even lower standard then the crew numbers would grow even larger.
There is no reason to believe that one ship design was the only design. Only that a focus on such a design for rapid response to threats, like the Borg or the Dominion, would be appropriate.
No untagged DSC Season 3 spoilers until 6 months have passed for the episode the spoiler is from.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/no-lower-decks-or-dsc-spoilers-yes-that-means-you.305254/
Nothing in Season 3 says the ships at HQ are the only ships left. There's mention of other ships being deployed, and flying about.
There's also no evidence of only a single design being in use before the burn, in fact we see of if not all of the designs in the HQ during a flashback showing the burn happening.
There's also no evidence of only a single design being in use before the burn, in fact we see of if not all of the designs in the HQ during a flashback showing the burn happening.
The Inquiry being the only ship class in the scene came down to time/budget for the FX not for any story or lore reason. The showrunner has even said there were 3 designs picked for the scene, but only one (with one subvariant) made it in.
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Yeah but just because the ships all look the same doesn't mean they actually are the same. Maybe they all have the same exterior frame but have different capabilities and configurations on the inside. Even if they are also the same on the inside, you have to weigh the cost of not having diversity in starship models against the benefits of being able to mass produce the same model faster (as I assume if a shipyard was building different classes of ships it would need to spend time re-configuring in between building accommodate the differences and there would probably be other manufacturing inefficiencies). So for example if a shipyard can make 8 identical ships in the same time it can make 5 different ships, the 3 extra ships might be better than the class diversity. Personally I don't think having identical ships would be too much of an issue as long as there aren't any serious design flaws. In my head canon the class diversity we saw in TNG and DS9 was more a function of ships being in service for a really long time. If you need to mass produce a bunch of ships all in the same time period you should probably just pick your best design and roll with it.
