Spoilers Batwoman - Season 2

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dahj, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It's not a bad idea narratively. It's just coincidental in a way that highlights their need to shoehorn a new lead character into their existing narrative. It's not a huge, dealbreaking issue, and it's perfectly understandable why they did it, but it's noticeable. Of all the people the Batsuit could've randomly fallen close to, it just happens to be someone who has a vendetta against Alice and the martial-arts skill to do something about it.

    On the other hand, it's a comic-book universe, so maybe it wasn't random. Is the Monitor still around post-Crisis? Maybe he knew something would happen to Kate and he arranged for her replacement.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oliver Queen built the new universe.
     
  3. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Admiral Admiral

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    Batwoman hits a ratings low;

    https://tvline.com/2021/01/18/tv-ratings-batwoman-season-2-premiere-kate-kane-missing/

    Well I don't anticipate this lasting past the second season with those numbers unless they retool the series
     
  4. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wonder too how marketing has been?

    wondering if some viewers tuned out because they perceived it as now being a "black show"? Or how many are oversaturated with other shows, and saving their time for one of the other DC TV shows, or watching something else, whether genre related (like Wanda Vision) or some thing else entirely.
     
  5. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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  6. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This has definitely been an issue for Black Lightning, despite its manifest excellence. Online reviews, home video releases, even discussion on this board -- you name it, it is treated in every context like it barely exists.
     
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  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    It was a solid set up for the new Status Quo. All the ducks have been placed in a row.
     
  8. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There were 28.8M people watching Brady and Brees.
     
  9. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Admiral Admiral

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    Live TV ratings may have been bad, but they won't be the deciding factor, especially considering this news:

    Batwoman, Walker Propel The CW App to the Top of Apple Store

     
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  10. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    I am glad you shared that. I do not think conventional broadcast ratings have as much meaning for a show’s success as they used to have. Particularly on small network like the CW.

    Also this show has been off the air for a long time. Most advertising is on the network and without new episodes of anything who is going to know it back? A lot of serious shit is going in the real world right now. Keeping track of when tv shows return after unusually long delays.... for “reasons”... might not be a high priority to many people right now. Have some perspective.

    CW is probably happy to have new episodes to air. No one talks about it - The Flash had to shutdown in November due to someone testing positive. No details on who or how long that lasted. We are lucky to have any new episodes right now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Conventional ratings still dictate how much they can charge for advertising on telly.

    Revenue from the App is a different stream, the question is, is it comparable to the ad blocks on broad cast tv?

    The real difference is that it costs a lot of money to broadcast TV.

    That's a lot of infrastructure that has to be maintained and regulated and implemented by techs and talent. So they start off trying to make money from the bottom of a huge hole.

    A free app with no subscription fees?

    There must be a lot of advertising bundled up into that app, to make giving away all that TV worthwhile.
     
  12. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's the problem; the showrunners knew there was no natural conflict on the level of Kate/Alice if there's no personal connection--which was shoehorned in Plot Convenience 101 fashion. Having Wilder have any connection to Alice makes the Batwoman world seem smaller. You build a conflict by...hmm...taking the time to build Wilder on the job and discover for herself how murderous Alice is, leading her to choose to stop her.

    I'm not surprised.


    There is strong possibility that a certain part of the CW-DC audience might have a problem with a black lead; over the years, whether in person or on social media platforms, I've encountered a good number of CW-DC fans who rarely cared about black characters, or were undeniably hostile toward them--specifically James Olsen (Supergirl) and Iris (The Flash) and cannot stand Black Lightning at all. Typically, the resentment is flat out racism and the kneejerk reaction that a black character might hold up a mirror to their own racial issues, despite this audience often patting themselves on the back for being the most "progressive" people in the nation. Black characters--in their minds--do not fit the kind of mold/type CW-DC commonly focuses on or champions. All so telling.
     
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  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But she's hot.

    Mary seems to be in charge now.

    She's bossing Luke around.

    Is Mary the new lead?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  14. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Bit early to talk about renewals, innit?
     
  15. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Batwoman
    Season 2 - Episode 2 - "Prior Criminal History"

    Luke Fox:
    Yes, Luke was not going to tell Sophie the extent of his relationship to Kate and her alter-ego, but it was good to see him fire back at her--and the Crows for their Jacob-led vendetta. While its nice to see him take a temporary vacation from his being reduced to the third wheel of a two-wheeled vehicle by acting like the keeper of the Bat-world (with Mary and Wilder needing his authorization to wear the suit) which should be the hierarchy at all times, I know that will not last. I fear he will end up being a spineless yes-man in his own world.

    Wilder/BW2: Javicia Leslie's performance continues to be shaky-to-amateurish. Her would-be ironic "I hate bats!" line was as cringe-worthy as the bad CG bat effects. Once again, out-of-touch writers had Wilder shoot out some racial talking points (accusing the Crows of not killing Alice because she's white) out of nowhere as a means for the showrunners to be topical for no reason that served the story/character. Again, the writers (James Stoteraux & Chad Fiveash) have no true, personal perspective on racial matters of the kind mentioned in this episode, so it would be best for them to stand on another soapbox.

    The exchange between Wilder and the homeless woman--

    Wilder: "I'm not Batwoman"
    Woman: "Well,you are to me"

    ..was forced beyond belief. But this was going to be an unavoidable problem for a series that tried to quickly find a replacement for a fired/dismissed/bailed/whatever actress. Trying to hammer reasons for Wilder to be seen as "worthy" of the BW suit/legacy is not working--and this is the point where getting her "worthiness" right was crucial.

    Alice: For the would-be "Joker" of this series, Alice has become repetitious and petty. Her schemes lack any kind of larger vision, and even if she managed to kill Safiyah and/or her father, then what? What IS her purpose? I'm not a liking the idea of Julia being so unsure of her own skills that she would consider working with a rubber room candidate--which is an option still on the table once Julia realizes Alice and Sophie were both taken prisoner by Whisper, and one can imagine Sophie (after he expected rescue) will not kill Safiyah, so Julia--trying to do anything to get back into Sophie's "good graces" will try to end the threat..with a little help from Alice.

    Jacob: He's been placed on the back burner so far; yes, he's hoping Kate is still alive, but if one is to assume there will never be a proper resolution to this sub-plot (other than flat-out having Kate's body discovered), I believe the showrunners might have Jacob be the target of Wilder (as BW), while he (uncharacteristically) tries to give Wilder a chance by the end of the season.

    Julia Pennyworth: Sophie had no place to cop an attitude with Julia over not spilling all she knew about Kate--it was none of her business--not her secret to tell, as Julia explained.

    Mary:
    "You willing to bet Kate's Legacy on that?" was a good counter by Luke to Mary's infantile desire for revenge.

    Oh, and now the amateur psychiatrist claims Alice 's behavior was her way of grieving Kate's death. Yeah, sure.

    NOTES:
    Plot convenience 10
    1: First, Wilder has a connection to Alice, now it turns out she was once rescued by Batwoman during an attempted robbery. As if the plot conveniences were not already piled to the ceiling, Wilder just so happened to find one of Kate's journals where she praised that "heroic" woman--Wilder from the robbery flashback--the world needs more of. Come on. This is not how you build a new character or sell any justification for her being a new Batwoman. Everything just falls into place for Wilder. She does not earn a thing.

    Oh, and Julia has been wounded by Alice, so she cannot don the Bat-suit again. Sigh.

    GRADE: C-.
     
  16. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't mind the small universe stuff people mentioned about the previous episode but I thought her first encounter flashback with Kate as Batwoman was a bit much and felt like it didn't fully connect with what we saw previously.

    In fact, the whole episode seemed on the sillier side of superheroics especially the stuff with the bats. I just kind of rolled with it and had some laughs but not top shelf.
     
  17. ToddKent

    ToddKent Captain Captain

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    I really wish they would explore the nature of the relationship between the Crows and the GCPD. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but it seemed like the setup for this show was more about the disparity between the rich of the city, who utilize a private security firm (the Crows) for their safety, and the poor who must rely on the police who were too corrupt/incompetent to be reliable.

    That concept alone would good enough for a TV show, even without Batwoman in it but they rarely talk about how it actually works. For example, when Ryan was arrested for the convenience store holdup she wasn't taken to the police station but rather to Crows HQ to be questioned.

    A situation like that would have to have a lot of political intrigue to be maintained but the shoe doesn't seem particularly interested in it.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The producers have said that they plan to use Ryan to deal with the Crows in a way they couldn't really do with Kate. They wanted to delve into the problems of the Crows as a private security firm catering to the rich, but they could only pay lip service to that as long as their lead character was the daughter of the Crows' head, the ex-girlfriend of their top agent, and a member of the wealthy class they protected. Now they have a lead character whose relationship with the Crows is more antagonistic, and they intend to take advantage of that to explore the issue from the perspective of the poor people the Crows leave behind.
     
  19. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Was it a cop who was at the convenience store or a crow security guard? if the later, then as they seem to be fully deputised it would make sense for him to take her in.

    quite possible the convenience store owner was paying the crows for security guard services just as many businesses engage private security firms.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Shouldn't Jacob or Sophie, or Ryan for that matter, have figured out who Batman is?

    Or does no one care about Batman anymore?