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MemoryAlpha editor refuses to change Adira's Gender to "Non-Binary"

I can immediately think of three possibilities there, with plenty of room for more:
1) Garak wasn't likely to be attracted to the daughter of Dukat.
2) Garak was bothered by the age difference.
3) Ziyal wasn't Garak's type (various ways that can be taken).

Not that a specific reason for why Garak wouldn't be attracted to Ziyal is even needed. Sometimes people just don't click.
 
A Bolian on DS9 had both husbands and wives.
The exact term used in Field of Fire is that the Bolian officer murdered had a "wife and co-husband" which I interpreted as meaning the wife was married to the two men, but the men were not necessarily married to each other.

Though I'm sure all three of them engaged in orgies.
 
I guess we're discussing this, Garak/Ziyal was a pretty flimsy "romance". Its also pretty sad that the writers seemly couldn't think of anyother ideas for Ziyal than a romance.(and then subsequently kill her off)

One of the biggest missed opportunities of the entire series was that they didn't match Ziyal up with Jake and Nog -- not romantically (necessarily), but just as three people in their early 20s whose lives are essentially lived at the mercy of the older generation.

They should've just let Garak/Bashir happen.

Yep. Honestly I'm pretty sure the writers only had Ziyal fall for Garak to appease Rick Berman's desire to "no homo" Garak. She was basically Garak's metatextual beard.
 
One of the biggest missed opportunities of the entire series was that they didn't match Ziyal up with Jake and Nog -- not romantically (necessarily), but just as three people in their early 20s whose lives are essentially lived at the mercy of the older generation.
Yes!! Someone else who sees the potential in those characters dynamics! I will always maintain that a Ziyal/Jake romance would've given us alot of great stories (assuming it be handled well of course)

Yep. Honestly I'm pretty sure the writers only had Ziyal fall for Garak to appease Rick Berman's desire to "no homo" Garak. She was basically Garak's metatextual beard.
Given that Andrew Robinson was told tone down his attraction toward Bashir in the way he played Garak, AND knowing that Berman is known homophobe I always figured this was the main reason for Ziyal/Garak.

I'm not sure Garak/Ziyal was ever intended to be a "romance".
I meant for my quotes to be read like air quotes.
 
Garak being gay makes sense but they never wrote Bashir that way so if they had explored it then it would have gone down the unrequited feelings territory and I am guessing this would have been done pretty well because it would have also played into the overall subtext about Garak being a man of many secrets. Both personal and professional.


Jason
 
Well... If my theory about Garak diddling Dukat's mother hold's water... That might make him Ziyal's grand father... So he may not have been after a sexual relationship with his granddaughter at all, even if she was clueless about their familial connection and gagging for it.
 
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Well... If my theory about Garak diddling Dukat's mother hold's water... That might make him Ziyal's grand father... So he may not have been after a sexual relationship with his granddaughter at all, even if she was clueless about their familial connection and she was gagging for it.
Hold up. Garak and Dukat were around the same age ... was time travel involved in this scenario?

I'm not playing this pedantic game with you. Star Trek never had LGBTQ characters before Star Trek Beyond (to a pathetically small degree) and Discovery due to the intentions of the producers who fought against it every time it came up. Unseen characters don't count, an actor playing a character as gay until he's told to stop and they give him a female love interest doesn't count, a random alien in a polycule doesn't count, aliens doing alien things doesn't count, none of it counts because they had to find it behind layers of bullshit and then go out of their way to show the audience that they weren't really gay. They couldn't even fully commit to it in Star Trek Beyond. This is an absolute failure on the part of the franchise. There were positive portrayals of LGBTQ characters on broadcast TV in the 1970s, Star Trek finally did it in 2017.

Considering the ground Trek broke in the 60's - yeah. TV's first interracial kiss. Not Trek -- television.
 
Hold up. Garak and Dukat were around the same age ... was time travel involved in this scenario?



Considering the ground Trek broke in the 60's - yeah. TV's first interracial kiss. Not Trek -- television.

Andrew and Mark are around the same age.

A normal Cardassian life span could be 500 years.
 
Well... If my theory about Garak diddling Dukat's mother hold's water... That might make him Ziyal's grand father... So he may not have been after a sexual relationship with his granddaughter at all, even if she was clueless about their familial connection and gagging for it.

Dukat's beef with Garak stemmed from Garak torturing Dukat's father to death when he worked for the obsidian order. Garak sleeping with another man's wife isn't his style, but funnily enough it is Dukat's.
 
Dukat's beef with Garak stemmed from Garak torturing Dukat's father to death when he worked for the obsidian order. Garak sleeping with another man's wife isn't his style, but funnily enough it is Dukat's.

The book said that he slept with someone's wife.
 
I can immediately think of three possibilities there, with plenty of room for more:
1) Garak wasn't likely to be attracted to the daughter of Dukat.
2) Garak was bothered by the age difference.
3) Ziyal wasn't Garak's type (various ways that can be taken).
Not that a specific reason for why Garak wouldn't be attracted to Ziyal is even needed. Sometimes people just don't click.
I guess we're discussing this, Garak/Ziyal was a pretty flimsy "romance". Its also pretty sad that the writers seemly couldn't think of anyother ideas for Ziyal than a romance.(and then subsequently kill her off)
I'm not sure Garak/Ziyal was ever intended to be a "romance".
If the girl Garak had true love for is intended to be a reference to Ziyal, then FWIW I never read it that way.
They held hands, hugged, and kissed.
Also:
ZIYAL: I got this holosuite programme from Quark. It's a reproduction of a Cardassian sauna, like the ones they have back home.
GARAK: Yes?
ZIYAL: I was wondering if you might be interested in trying it out with me.

ZIYAL: But if you'd like to stay and share the heat with me, maybe tell me something about home that I don't know, then I would welcome your company. And I get the feeling you would welcome mine.

ZIYAL: My father would be furious to hear me say this, but there's something about Garak I find fascinating.

ZIYAL: But if something were to happen to you, I don't know what I'd do.
GARAK: Oh, I'm sure you could find someone else to eat your meals with. Not that you'd have to. I fully intend to return.
ZIYAL: It's not just the meals.
GARAK: Yes, I know. I'm the only other Cardassian on the station.
ZIYAL: It's not that either. You know that. It's just that you're intelligent and cultured and kind.
GARAK: My dear, you're young, so I realize that you're a poor judge of character.
ZIYAL: Why do you always make fun of my feelings for you?
GARAK: Perhaps because I find them a but misguided.
ZIYAL: If that's what you think, why do you spend so much time with me?
GARAK: Because I'm exiled and alone, and a long way from home. And when I'm with you it doesn't feel so bad.
ZIYAL: I'm glad I could help.
GARAK: Ziyal, no matter what happens, no matter how bleak things may look, I promise you I will come back. You have my word.

ZIYAL: I keep hoping the wormhole will open, that Garak's runabout will come through and everything will be all right again.


I'm not playing this pedantic game with you. Star Trek never had LGBTQ characters before Star Trek Beyond (to a pathetically small degree) and Discovery due to the intentions of the producers who fought against it every time it came up. Unseen characters don't count, an actor playing a character as gay until he's told to stop and they give him a female love interest doesn't count, a random alien in a polycule doesn't count, aliens doing alien things doesn't count, none of it counts because they had to find it behind layers of bullshit and then go out of their way to show the audience that they weren't really gay. They couldn't even fully commit to it in Star Trek Beyond. This is an absolute failure on the part of the franchise. There were positive portrayals of LGBTQ characters on broadcast TV in the 1970s, Star Trek finally did it in 2017.

There was a time when you saw things differently ;)
Number One has powerful bi energy.

The whole bridge crew probably had an orgy one of the times they all got high on spores.

They couldn't possibly show it in the 60s. But Kirk is almost certainly pansexual.

Riker is canonically pansexual given he was attracted to an agender alien.
 
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