this. One million times this.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x13 - "That Hope Is You, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
this. One million times this.
This episode really surprised me in a good way. I went into this with a sense of fatigue, to be honest, just wanting to get this over with, but it turned out to be a really exciting final hour after the last several episodes seemed to lose their way a bit. Someone said before that these last three episodes have to be read as three acts of the same story, and after this one clarified a lot of things, some parts I've found questionable during the last few weeks seem more understandable in context now.
I'll elaborate on that later, but now I'll obviously have to start with the part that's probably going to cause the most controversy all over the internet. She's the captain now. I'm sure there are a lot of people who'd wanted to have a captain from Future Starfleet or even Nilsson being promoted, but I think it's mostly because they want anyone but Burnham in that chair. To be fair, I'm not sure I would've wanted her to be promoted so soon either, but Vance's choice makes sense if you think of what he's said about not doing it the right way. In his context, the "right way" really meant "the way things have always been done", and I took it as him saying that rebuilding the Federation requires people without the ingrained rigidity and cautious nature of 32nd century Starfleet. If Discovery is to be sent out on a quasi-five-year mission to help various diverse planets and bring them back into the fold, her stubborn determination to do what she thinks is right might serve them better than the by-the-book caution of a desk jockey would. It's the same disconnect as Sisko on the frontier vs. Nechayev on Paradise Earth, come to think of it. Michael is the second best choice after Saru, and I don't think we've seen the last of him.
As for the "seems different in context" part, I'm referring to how angry I was at her for jettisoning Paul. But after seeing how close Osyraa got to actually winning, it was the right choice in the end, and her unorthodox approach of letting Osyraa go did work out in the end, even if it was a bumpy road. She made one major mistake though, which was once again perfectly characteristic of who she is. She's the textbook definition of "too clever by half", last demonstrated in Unification III. She thought she can play Osyraa and get her to release the crew in return for convincing Vance to let them go, but Osyraa then showed what a smart villain she is by promptly denying her request and trying to break her by torturing Book. Michael was too stubborn to realize there was no way Osyraa would agree to anything after she was notified that the crew was fighting their way through the ship, and Michael proceeded to smugly grin at her, saying "what can I say, we're Starfleet." But once together with Book, she at least proved herself to be quite capable of thinking at her feet and escaping. Speaking of Osyraa, I've come to really like her over these last three episodes, she was a complex, and not to mention dangerously smart villain. I was actually sad to see her go, and I don't think I like the Chain falling apart after her death like Mordor collapsing into a crater, but Discovery tends to make monumental declarations that turn out to be only half-true on a smaller scale the next time we hear about them (like how Discovery's damnatio memoriae turned out to be only their mission and disappearance being classified).
The crew's plan of disconnecting the nacelle was once again a good show of their teamwork, and I was glad (and, I admit, a bit smug) that Tilly was able to immediately do what took Troi several tries in Thine Own Self, even if that one was just a test back then. She didn't need her personal Kobayashi Maru; she understands perfectly that a huge part of being a captain is to know you have the moral authority to send your crew on missions they might not come back from for the greater good. I was a bit disappointed that she apparently remained an Ensign at the end, because she really would've deserved a promotion to LtJG for her troubles. It was interesting to see though that she decided to transfer to Science instead of returning to Engineering. If it wasn't a costuming error, of course.
As for the part with Su'Kal, it was the usual fare as far as mystery plots go for me, and I've practically felt the pieces of the puzzle falling in place. Discovery usually fails to stick the landing with foreshadowing monumental revelations that turn out to be modest and low-key, often personal stories in the end, like the reveal of Hugh being the source of the mycelial blight. Today, it was a personal story once again, but I think they managed to do it well this time, with strong performances from everyone involved, especially Doug Jones and Bill Irwin.
Observations:
I'll elaborate on that later, but now I'll obviously have to start with the part that's probably going to cause the most controversy all over the internet. She's the captain now. I'm sure there are a lot of people who'd wanted to have a captain from Future Starfleet or even Nilsson being promoted, but I think it's mostly because they want anyone but Burnham in that chair. To be fair, I'm not sure I would've wanted her to be promoted so soon either, but Vance's choice makes sense if you think of what he's said about not doing it the right way. In his context, the "right way" really meant "the way things have always been done", and I took it as him saying that rebuilding the Federation requires people without the ingrained rigidity and cautious nature of 32nd century Starfleet. If Discovery is to be sent out on a quasi-five-year mission to help various diverse planets and bring them back into the fold, her stubborn determination to do what she thinks is right might serve them better than the by-the-book caution of a desk jockey would. It's the same disconnect as Sisko on the frontier vs. Nechayev on Paradise Earth, come to think of it. Michael is the second best choice after Saru, and I don't think we've seen the last of him.
As for the "seems different in context" part, I'm referring to how angry I was at her for jettisoning Paul. But after seeing how close Osyraa got to actually winning, it was the right choice in the end, and her unorthodox approach of letting Osyraa go did work out in the end, even if it was a bumpy road. She made one major mistake though, which was once again perfectly characteristic of who she is. She's the textbook definition of "too clever by half", last demonstrated in Unification III. She thought she can play Osyraa and get her to release the crew in return for convincing Vance to let them go, but Osyraa then showed what a smart villain she is by promptly denying her request and trying to break her by torturing Book. Michael was too stubborn to realize there was no way Osyraa would agree to anything after she was notified that the crew was fighting their way through the ship, and Michael proceeded to smugly grin at her, saying "what can I say, we're Starfleet." But once together with Book, she at least proved herself to be quite capable of thinking at her feet and escaping. Speaking of Osyraa, I've come to really like her over these last three episodes, she was a complex, and not to mention dangerously smart villain. I was actually sad to see her go, and I don't think I like the Chain falling apart after her death like Mordor collapsing into a crater, but Discovery tends to make monumental declarations that turn out to be only half-true on a smaller scale the next time we hear about them (like how Discovery's damnatio memoriae turned out to be only their mission and disappearance being classified).
The crew's plan of disconnecting the nacelle was once again a good show of their teamwork, and I was glad (and, I admit, a bit smug) that Tilly was able to immediately do what took Troi several tries in Thine Own Self, even if that one was just a test back then. She didn't need her personal Kobayashi Maru; she understands perfectly that a huge part of being a captain is to know you have the moral authority to send your crew on missions they might not come back from for the greater good. I was a bit disappointed that she apparently remained an Ensign at the end, because she really would've deserved a promotion to LtJG for her troubles. It was interesting to see though that she decided to transfer to Science instead of returning to Engineering. If it wasn't a costuming error, of course.
As for the part with Su'Kal, it was the usual fare as far as mystery plots go for me, and I've practically felt the pieces of the puzzle falling in place. Discovery usually fails to stick the landing with foreshadowing monumental revelations that turn out to be modest and low-key, often personal stories in the end, like the reveal of Hugh being the source of the mycelial blight. Today, it was a personal story once again, but I think they managed to do it well this time, with strong performances from everyone involved, especially Doug Jones and Bill Irwin.
Observations:
- If Su'Kal is genetically connected to subspace because of dilithium, does that mean he can use the spore drive too, like Book?
- I don't remember it being told explicitly, but the song was apparently Su'Kal's lullaby reverberating through subspace through his voice.
- I absolutely loved them making the turbolift funhouse a plot point. It was a really fun action sequence and there was no way it wasn't intentional.
- "If it helps, that's an order." "I was really hoping you would say that." - Sassy Tilly is Best Tilly
- Future Kaminar really reminded me of the Weird Planet from Blink of an Eye; Saru and Su'Kal looking at the night sky had vibes of an elderly Gotana-Retz watching the Sky Ship leave.
Not really. I've been kept abreast of the goings on by others who still find it difficult to completely let go, despite their disappointment. I got to skim through the finale just to see for myself but found nothing in it that seemed worth the investment in time for the whole season.
If you enjoy it, great. I wish there was some Star Trek being produced that appealed to my tastes and those of other fans like me. Until then there are always blu-rays.
Yeah, I am good. Picard, Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds. Cautiously optimistic about Section 31. It's just Discovery that is the problem.
With 3 other shows to watch not sure how it's a problem. It's like me passing on VOY or ENT for SG:1 or Farscape. That's the nature of entertainment libraries. It's not for everyone. Star Trek is not for everyone.
Oh, did my review trigger you? I am so "sorry" I used wrong pronoun here
Yeah it was torture, I wanted to see so that I can still participate in this board. But I am not a fanboy that gives every single episode a 10, just because it has "Star Trek" in the title. If an episode sucks, I am going to call it out. You don't have to like it or care at all what I have to say.
No, but I do. It's that whole caring about another human being and their mental wellbeing thing that I have going on.
I'm seeing someone for it so someday I will not longer care at all, just like Gene would want
This is why 1s and 10s can still hang outNo, but I do. It's that whole caring about another human being and their mental wellbeing thing that I have going on.
I'm seeing someone for it so someday I will not longer care at all, just like Gene would want
It's like we're in a forum or something where everyone can speak their minds
Yes, and it's like people want those people to watch something they actually enjoy...because the beating of the dead horse of Discovery hate is really confusing when there is so much else out there.This is why 1s and 10s can still hang out
It's like we're in a forum or something where everyone can speak their minds
Yup, there's stupid, and then there's Salamander stupid.So, here's the thing... the calculations for things like freefall distance are pretty straightforward.
Burnham rolled out of an open doorway and fell for ~4.5 seconds onto the roof of a passing turbolift. Assuming Discovery has Earth-like gravity, she'd have fallen ~99m and reached a speed of ~158km/s. Apparently she sutained no life-threatening injuries while doing this, thereby revealing that Burnham is secretly a Jedi.
Later on, we see Discovery's warp core fall for ~8 seconds (although admittedly it scrapes the sides on the way down, because... yeah... why would you want a smooth ejection system for a warp core, I guess). Assuming it fell under gravity, it has travelled ~300m before it leaves the ship.
Discovery, based on its canonical length of 750.5m, is only ~75m tall.
Never mind the cavernous open spaces we are somehow expected to believe fit inside the ship.
Even if we assume everyone and everything was falling very slowly, the ship is shown to be impossibly big. Spacedock big. TARDIS big. It's farcical. It's impossible to take seriously.
This is Salamander stupid.
Meh - a 5.
In the end too predictable. I also thought "The EC folded with Osyra dead..." just to %$#@! pat.
And they have power to use the Spore Drive AFTER dumping the warp core? Not to mention main power at all?
What? Did the Nvar Fleet just have a compatible Warp Core Discovery just beamed into place?
ST: D started in the 23rd century - but unfortunately with this episode (IMO) they've transformed into the something with teh bad tropes of Berman era Trek.
I also have a feeling the crew thought this might have been ST: D's final season with the GR quote bookend; as well as Burnham being made Captain (and sorry Vance's speech as to why it was 'her time' to take command rang very hollow to me - again, it happened because she 'Michael Burnham, star of the series..."
I'll tune in for the start of Season 4 - but if it's going where I think...
Now hoping "Strange New Worlds" and "Section 31" turn out interesting when they finally get them in actual production.
In the end too predictable. I also thought "The EC folded with Osyra dead..." just to %$#@! pat.
And they have power to use the Spore Drive AFTER dumping the warp core? Not to mention main power at all?
What? Did the Nvar Fleet just have a compatible Warp Core Discovery just beamed into place?
ST: D started in the 23rd century - but unfortunately with this episode (IMO) they've transformed into the something with teh bad tropes of Berman era Trek.
I also have a feeling the crew thought this might have been ST: D's final season with the GR quote bookend; as well as Burnham being made Captain (and sorry Vance's speech as to why it was 'her time' to take command rang very hollow to me - again, it happened because she 'Michael Burnham, star of the series..."
I'll tune in for the start of Season 4 - but if it's going where I think...
Now hoping "Strange New Worlds" and "Section 31" turn out interesting when they finally get them in actual production.
It's 32nd century technology. I'm surprised they had to beam anything in. Obviously, the technology is now available where they can make anything!
No. I’d have to respect you or your view in order to be triggered. I just wanted to clarify that you weren’t talking for me. Quite honestly, I think that was fairly clear from my post. Ya know, ‘cause that’s what I said.
Nor am I. I’m also not a blinkered hater who instantly gives a zero out of ten because I don’t like stories in which an unfamiliar pronoun is used or there’s a black female lead character or if Kurtzman once ate in the same cafeteria as one of the writers, or whichever underlying bullshit reason drives some people’s ignorant response online. There’s quite a lot of interesting grey area in between those extremes. In this case, I was clarifying that ‘we’ don’t feel that way, you seem to. I don’t. That’s it.
Yes, I’m already aware of what I do and don’t have to do. I’m not triggered, or whichever mocking jibe you want to use that says more about you than you probably realise, I just wanted to clarify something in your post.
A ships fusion reactors are sufficient for anything that's not high warp travel.
Something the writers only occasionally remember.
I think the EC folded because they lost a powerful element of their government as well as one of their larger ships (assuming most ships are around the size of Book's ship).
They're already terribly low on whatever stockpiles of Dilithium they had, what with them being willing to ruin their economic systems for whatever they can get from the Federation.
Additionally, surely the M/AM engine isn't the primary power source in ships, especially when Dilithium is scarce.
I didn't occur to me until now, but one issue that I have with the show and its writing is that I think I know more about the cat than I do with the majority of the bridge crew. Hopefully next season they won't have an universe ending threat to deal with and can afford to give the bridge crew one off episodes.
I mean, Mayweather got no lines on Enterprise and even he was thrown a bone once in a while.
I mean, Mayweather got no lines on Enterprise and even he was thrown a bone once in a while.
I know about Detmer, Tilly, Saru and Michael.
I don't need more.
I don't need more.
They missed a trick by omitting a scene of Michael's mother proudly observing Discovery warping out under the command of her daughter.
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After thinking about that episode some more, I felt the finale was a little rushed. I liked the stuff with Su'kul, but we go from Ossyra negotiating with Vance last week back to mustache twirling villian again this week. We didn't get anything about the music that everyone was hearing, and I really hope Stamets doesn't forgive Burnham that easily. Overall, this season probably promised too much and delivered too little.
6
6
Picard is the problem. That show was just awful.
