Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x09 - "Terra Firma, Part 1"

[Noname Given]

I don't think RMB is objecting with Discovery using the GoF, he is objecting with HOW Discovery is using the GoF. Big difference. He does not like that Discovery changed the GoF from what it was in TOS.

Does he ALSO hate how they changed it again for TAS "Yesteryear"? (Before you couldn't just call out a planet or location. Kirk even asked and was told it was made to offer the past in the way it was - and cannot change..." - yet in TAS "Yesteryear" suddenly you could call out a specific planet and date.

So yeah, RMB (who's nothing but a f**king grifter along with Alec Peters for YEARS before he found that working with Peters cost him other industry gigs because NO ONE likes an attempted IP thief) - can go f**k himself. He's G+HARDLY any more of an 'authority' on Star Trek or TOS than anyone else here.

Again, it appeared the GoF Kirk found might have been damaged or degraded in some way. This one is obviously a different GoF which is somehow more fully functional. Given the tech of the race who created these things why assume they are all the same or do the same things the same way?

 

[Visitor1982]

If Isaacs had been in these episodes, he would have been the cliffhanger reveal.

 

[TheMadCloner]

Couple of other thoughts:

- Wasn’t MU Stamets still alive in season 1 after this point in time? How did Georgiou deal with the assassination attempt originally?

- Is MU Owo crying because she had a thing going with Burnham or because now she sees that Georgiou is weak?

- MU Detmer was on Burnham’s side? That look she gives her after Stamets failed was unusual.

- I kind of thought it was Rehka Sharma but she looked different than she did in season 1. Maybe it’s the hair.

 

[DaveyNY]

There could be several Guardians. This one could be the Guardian of Never, or the Guardian of Sometimes.

OH boy!
Let's step through the Guardian of Sometimes and come out the otherside looking like Lizard Janway & Paris.

 

[NCC-73515]

What makes this episode stand out the most is that juicy opportunity to change history with future knowledge, while also having been changed more than you've realized by being in a completely different world. Suddenly you're struggling to play the role you've played and enjoyed all your life, because you've seen a different way of life. Everyone around you is just waiting to see weakness and hesitation so they can kill you and take your place. It's much harder to slip back into your old position and attitudes now that you got a taste of something better, and you are just now realizing that. It's brilliant!

 

[Discofan]

Couple of other thoughts:

- Wasn’t MU Stamets still alive in season 1 after this point in time? How did Georgiou deal with the assassination attempt originally?

It's a different timeline. Not only was Stamets still alive but he was trapped in the mycelium network. Plus he had betrayed Lorca so I am guessing he didn't attempt to kill Georgiou.

 

[Discofan]

OH boy!
Let's step through the Guardian of Sometimes and come out the otherside looking like Lizard Janway & Paris.

Brannon Braga is still kicking himself for making that episode.

 

[Harvey]

@Harvey Might understand all that stuff better than I regarding Ellison's hold on the GoF concept.

The Guardian has appeared repeatedly in tie-in fiction, not to mention Star Trek: Online and “Yesteryear.” Which is a longer way of saying, “beats me!”

(I haven’t seen season three of Discovery yet, so bowing out of this thread now...)

 

[TheMadCloner]

It's a different timeline. Not only was Stamets still alive but he was trapped in the mycelium network. Plus he had betrayed Lorca so I am guessing he didn't attempt to kill Georgiou.

I thought it was only a different timeline after Burnham wasn’t killed by Georgiou. I was under the impression that Georgiou is shown as knowing Stamets would try and kill her because it also happened originally...but it didn’t.

Not a big deal, I still liked the episode.

 

[TheMadCloner]

What makes this episode stand out the most is that juicy opportunity to change history with future knowledge, while also having been changed more than you've realized by being in a completely different world. Suddenly you're struggling to play the role you've played and enjoyed all your life, because you've seen a different way of life. Everyone around you is just waiting to see weakness and hesitation so they can kill you and take your place. It's much harder to slip back into your old position and attitudes now that you got a taste of something better, and you are just now realizing that. It's brilliant!

My gut feeling is that the GOF will pull another Edith and make Georgiou realize the only way forward is to kill Burnham as originally intended. It’ll force her to face and accept her evil and violent past, and show her how much she’s changed since.

 

[Ketrick]

What if the newspaper isn't just a reference to the Guardian of Forever? In the Voyager episode "Death Wish", when they went to the Q Continuum there was a woman reading a magazine that seems somewhat similar to the newspaper. What if Carl/a GoF is actually a Q who didn't evolve into what they are in the "New Era" or is perhaps a product of the Q before they took that evolutionary step?

On a different issue, considering that until this season we hadn't seen what Emperor Georgiou was like before Lorca and Burnham betrayed her, it's possible that her hard edge when Prime Burnham met her was because their betrayal hardened her.

 

[Lord Garth]

If Isaacs had been in these episodes, he would have been the cliffhanger reveal.

This I agree with.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Stamets' narration of Georgiou's life was fun. It makes sense that the Terrans would have a lot of performative shows about their past that's just making shit up. It's probably what the Nazis would've eventually done if they won the war. Over the top and dramatic, yet somehow empty. It's the core of fascism, emptiness.

 

[Search4]

I absolutely loved the episode. 10 for me. Much more background on the Trek universe, about multi-verses in general in Trek, and how they work - really well done. And of course the Emperor herself.

Yes, its distracting from the main arc but just the fact that we (mostly) didn't catch the "Terra Firma" title == the Terran universe makes it outstanding. What a clue!

 

[Discofan]

My gut feeling is that the GOF will pull another Edith and make Georgiou realize the only way forward is to kill Burnham as originally intended. It’ll force her to face and accept her evil and violent past, and show her how much she’s changed since.

Yeah, it's also kinda like Picard in "Tapestry".

 

[ITDUDE]

Starting with baseline of 5, +2 for Georgiou, +1 for that dude on the planet (Guardian/Shmardian who cares), -2 for Slow Burn.... -5 for another MF-ing Mirror Universe episode
1/10, by far the worst of Season 3 (and next episode looks to be about the same)

EDIT: Oh and if you’re going to tease Lorca’s name the whole episode you better F*#%* BBL!

 

[Tim Thomason]

In the original mirror universe, Mirror Burnham just disappeared and Mirror Stamets had betrayed Lorca's coup to Georgiou at some point. Given the point of departure, this being the day that Lorca betrays her, we can assume that Georgiou did things differently. Originally, she sent Mirror Burnham away to apprehend Lorca... here, she keeps Mirror Burnham by her side. We can presume this is to the Rebels' benefit, and they used it to attempt an assassination on Georgiou via Stamets, whereas originally it was through someone else (with Stamets later joining Georgiou's side).

 

[TheMadCloner]

Stamets' narration of Georgiou's life was fun. It makes sense that the Terrans would have a lot of performative shows about their past that's just making shit up. It's probably what the Nazis would've eventually done if they won the war. Over the top and dramatic, yet somehow empty. It's the core of fascism, emptiness.

I think the Nazis already did that stuff before they lost anyways.

 

[cooleddie74]

Stamets' show reminded me of North Korean performances of dance to celebrate the Kim family and the dictatorship. Sucking up to the dictator so you can stay alive and remain in their favor.

 

[Discofan]

In the original mirror universe, Mirror Burnham just disappeared and Mirror Stamets had betrayed Lorca's coup to Georgiou at some point. Given the point of departure, this being the day that Lorca betrays her, we can assume that Georgiou did things differently. Originally, she sent Mirror Burnham away to apprehend Lorca... here, she keeps Mirror Burnham by her side. We can presume this is to the Rebels' benefit, and they used it to attempt an assassination on Georgiou via Stamets, whereas originally it was through someone else (with Stamets later joining Georgiou's side).

But this must change the prime universe as well since prime Stamets relied on mirror Stamets to get him out of the mycelium network... For all, we know it could erase all that happened, including young Micheal not being eaten by the beast on Vulcan!!!