Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x07 - "Unification III"

[cooleddie74]

"James T. Kirk never cried"?

Has this person never seen TSFS and the moment Kirk learns his son has been killed? I know that would require being aware of the franchise which a lot of so-called fans clearly aren't.

 

[Gilora]

For all we know, Saru may be planning to give everyone a temporary spin in the XO chair and Tilly is just the first.

 

[Nerys Myk]

For all we know, Saru may be planning to give everyone a temporary spin in the XO chair and Tilly is just the first.

Admiral Vance: We give promotions based on melee combat in the 32nd Century. The Klingons brought that to the Federation when they joined.
Saru: Klingons?????
Vance: Is that a problem?

 

[cooleddie74]

"Which Klingons?"

"Get out."

 

[Nerys Myk]

"Which Klingons?"

"Get out."

Klingon with Fu Manchu moustache and grease paint: You're standing next to one, Kelpian.

 

[Uhura's Song]

The whole situation with Tilly reminds me of how everyone overreacted to the tardigrade. The writers would have known that tilly would have been a controversial choice among the fan base and i don't think the choice of tilly as acting xo was done on a whim. I'm keen to see where it goes.

It certainly wasn't whimsical. They have been setting her up to be a captain from S1. Command Training. Captain Killy. And this year in Ep2 we see how much Saru values her.

Of the other oissible choices...Owu & Detmer have had the most screen time but are pretty underdeveloped. We've seen Nilsson & Bryce (?) take the con, but we know even less about them. Reno is a smart ass. Stamets a specialist. Nhan is gone. Georgiou a Terran. And Culber not even CMO.

I do not like the choice, but absent a 32nd century officer, it had to be her.

 

[crookeddy]

"James T. Kirk never cried"?

Has this person never seen TSFS and the moment Kirk learns his son has been killed? I know that would require being aware of the franchise which a lot of so-called fans clearly aren't.

While I agree with a lot of the Discovery criticism, I feel like a lot of the most noisy "This Isn't Trek!!!1" types never watched or understood Star Trek. For example, all the complaints about Vulkans not acting logically - when were they ever presented as truly acting logically on a Star Trek show? We were told they were driven by pure logic, but were shown something completely different...

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't think the choice to make Tilly the First Officer was whimsical. In the first season she said she wanted to be a Captain some day. In the Mirror Universe, we see that Tilly was Captain of Discovery. In the second season, she's in the Command Training Program.

That's not the problem. The problem is I think they skipped a step. IMO, they should've promoted her to Lieutenant at some point, after completing the Command Training Program. And then make her Acting First Officer. Then promote her to Lieutenant Commander when the position would be made permanent and "Acting" is dropped from the title.

 

[Nerys Myk]

She's earned a promotion to Lieutenant by now, anyway.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Lack of defenses? The Breen attackers were slaughtered. What did they achieve for their troubles? Three columns of smoke coming out of San Francisco, plus the span of a decorative bridge cut. This in an era where individual starships can slag continents and fleets can strip a planet down to its mantle. I'd say Earth could sleep through attacks of that sort in the future.

I misread the post....... I thought the Breen attack was a fatal blow to Earth, it's been years since I saw DS9 and it's the only series I never watched again because I just couldn't get back into it. Excuse the foggy memory.

 

[DaveyNY]

I think perhaps that folks have forgotten that the Jewish angle that appeared in this discussion, came from a post about a complete 'Ice-hole' raging about his imagined Star Trek connections to real-world events that happened over 70 years ago.

It wasn't because any of us wanted to go there.

 

[SG-17]

and for good reason it's stupid she's barely an ensign for fuck sake pretty much everyone on that ship has more business being the XO than her

And pretty much every officer of note supported her.

 

[jackoverfull]

She's earned a promotion to Lieutenant by now, anyway.

pretty much.

And pretty much every officer of note supported her.

”because”.

 

[donners22]

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12013210/reviews

Wow, these reviews are like... final episode of Game of Thrones level! The general public REALLY hated this episode.

I wouldn't use IMDb reviews as a reflection of the "general public". It's a very small portion of the audience which rates an episode on IMDb, and an even smaller portion which goes on to write a review.

A substantial portion of the written IMDb reviews for each Disco episode are negative, even the episodes which have high overall ratings. It's mostly a core of hate-watchers (or non-watchers) who rush to bash each episode.

Just have a look at the Forget Me Not reviews as an example - a substantial portion of them (a third when I looked soon after the episode) were transphobic, and many had little to do with the episode itself.

It’s amazing how much reading people’s opinions on these message boards actually saps my joy for watching these episodes sometimes.

I find it much better here than elsewhere for the most part, though that may be due to my ignore list. I've stopped discussing it on Reddit because of the constant negativity. It's one thing to dislike portions of a show - I had issues with this episode - but it gets tedious when it's the same people just constantly hating on the show.

 

[DEWLine]

Junior Lieutenant, at least?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I wouldn't use IMDb reviews as a reflection of the "general public". It's a very small portion of the audience which rates an episode on IMDb, and an even smaller portion which goes on to write a review.

A substantial portion of the written IMDb reviews for each Disco episode are negative, even the episodes which have high overall ratings. It's mostly a core of hate-watchers (or non-watchers) who rush to bash each episode.

Just have a look at the Forget Me Not reviews as an example - a substantial portion of them (a third when I looked soon after the episode) were transphobic, and many had little to do with the episode itself.



I find it much better here than elsewhere for the most part, though that may be due to my ignore list. I've stopped discussing it on Reddit because of the negativity.

Yes because it's not like Star Trek doesn't tackle real world issues in a fictional setting, like it's been doing since it first began...... I just ignore the hater comments. Those reviews just are salty people who are not fans I guess.

 

[eschaton]

I agree the Tilly discussion is played out...so let's shift to the other crucial flaw in the episode.

Michael has an important realization at the climax of the episode: That it's not really all about her and the monomania she has regarding the Burn. She steps back from the precipice when she has the chance to push for the "needed" data, when she realizes that making such a request will spark civil war. It's left unsaid, but it seems she realized that her mission as a Starfleet officer - which was in part to attempt to re-establish normal relations with Ni'var - was more important than her silly quest. So she puts on her big girl pants and says no thank you, showing an amazing level of emotional growth.

Then the episode rewards her by handing her the needed data anyway.

Narratively speaking, this is a terrible, awful decision, which completely undercuts her character growth. Choices should have consequences, and she basically got out scot-free from the "hard choice" that was put in front of her. She got to complete her Starfleet mission and got the data. The conclusion she will draw from this is that she's always right - it just so happens this time around she was right to fold. But she can continue to do what feels right to her in the moment and suffer no repercussions.

The worst part about all of this is it was entirely unneeded in terms of narrative. The episode could have ended on a strong bit of character growth, and Michael could have just noted in the opening of the very next episode they managed to get somewhat analogous information from some other source. So we didn't need to have Momma Burnham pass along the data at all. The episode would have had such a strong finish - possibly the strongest of the entire series - if they had just done this.

 

[unimatrix7]

Yeah, we say that in America too.
The "problem" is actually using "Burnham's" which means the pop up belongs to Burnham. I assume you meant "Burnhams", more than one. Which is a bit hyperbolic.

I mean, it was just a typo but okay. A thousand pardons.

 

[donners22]

Narratively speaking, this is a terrible, awful decision, which completely undercuts her character growth. Choices should have consequences, and she basically got out scot-free from the "hard choice" that was put in front of her. She got to complete her Starfleet mission and got the data. The conclusion she will draw from this is that she's always right - it just so happens this time around she was right to fold. But she can continue to do what feels right to her in the moment and suffer no repercussions.

Yeah, that bugged me too.

As I understood it, her withdrawal was because she feared that the release of the data would lead to infighting among the Vulcan/Romulan people, and she did not want her own interests to be the catalyst for driving apart what her brother had achieved.

To then covertly receive that data would surely only magnify that risk if it was ever revealed.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Count me among those who have no major issue with Tilly being the first officer. I'll quote from Keith R. A. DeCandido:



And here's Devon Maloney of Vulture:



Far stranger things have happened in this universe, and we've seen all season that Tilly is becoming a prudent leader and delegator with sharp emotional acuity while others--Detmer, Nilsson, Stamets, and Burnham included--have struggled. I guess I just don't care about the possible ways I could nitpick the promotion, especially after seeing the embarrassingly explosive tantrums thrown about it on Reddit and Twitter. I like it. It resonates with me. First officers manage people; Tilly can do that.

I dont get how people are missing the point that just because someone is a commander that it automatically makes them a capable leader or desiring of a position of authority. Burnham as much as i like her is evidence of this. Also jyst because Nilsson has

I agree the Tilly discussion is played out...so let's shift to the other crucial flaw in the episode.

Michael has an important realization at the climax of the episode: That it's not really all about her and the monomania she has regarding the Burn. She steps back from the precipice when she has the chance to push for the "needed" data, when she realizes that making such a request will spark civil war. It's left unsaid, but it seems she realized that her mission as a Starfleet officer - which was in part to attempt to re-establish normal relations with Ni'var - was more important than her silly quest. So she puts on her big girl pants and says no thank you, showing an amazing level of emotional growth.

Then the episode rewards her by handing her the needed data anyway.

Narratively speaking, this is a terrible, awful decision, which completely undercuts her character growth. Choices should have consequences, and she basically got out scot-free from the "hard choice" that was put in front of her. She got to complete her Starfleet mission and got the data. The conclusion she will draw from this is that she's always right - it just so happens this time around she was right to fold. But she can continue to do what feels right to her in the moment and suffer no repercussions.

The worst part about all of this is it was entirely unneeded in terms of narrative. The episode could have ended on a strong bit of character growth, and Michael could have just noted in the opening of the very next episode they managed to get somewhat analogous information from some other source. So we didn't need to have Momma Burnham pass along the data at all. The episode would have had such a strong finish - possibly the strongest of the entire series - if they had just done this.

I think it would have been better thematically for T'rina to give the data to Saru as an olive branch. It would have been a nice endnote to the relationship they developed during the episode.