Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x07 - "Unification III"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
The most critical are always just the loudest.
Look at the ratings result to see what the majority really thinks.
80% rate it higher than average in this thread.
No, I know...but it’s just so relentless sometimes.
Honestly, I even find it hard to watch the show live and enjoy it, because I find myself thinking “oh...THIS is going to make people bitch and moan” or “oh boy, all the usual suspects are gonna have a field day with THAT” or whatever...instead of just happily enjoying the story like I usually would.
It’s one of the reasons I find myself posting in this forum far less than I usually do this season. It just feels like Groundhog Day sometimes.
This thread is particularly bad for some reason, despite the high rating in the poll.
Most bizarre of all is seeing that some people are ranting that the episode is anti-Semitic because they equate Vulcans with Jews (which I’d never before heard in 30 years of being a Trek fan). Some people just go out of their way to hate things, and if they can’t find anything to hate they’ll make something up. It’s sad. Fans suck the joy out of things these days. Maybe they always did, I dunno.
Pretty much, yeah.
Beyer is not my favorite writers on the current Trek shows. I find her episodes mostly meh. This one was better than most.
But I do agree that Trek is becoming more and more insular. It no longer goes out and finds new stories, new races but instead just gives us the same species wrapped in fancy new packaging.
And the shows spend more time connecting the dots than exploring the final frontier.
On that note, I was thinking that the show could've given Burnham more of a reason to figure out the Burn if it was tied somehow to finding her mom. Now there's something personal in it for her.
I missed most of the discussion on Tilly, following my "Oh God. Oh no" response I made as the scene was airing on my laptop. I still feel it was a wrong decision, as many others apparently do, but I've had time to reflect on it.
It makes sense, in one respect, if you remember that she was (as she reminded the viewer) a student of the Command Training Program, something we only know of Burnham participating in (and Saru via deleted scenes). Owo and Detmer and even Rhys and, I don't know, Linus might never have had aspirations beyond their stations, or at least never let them known by joining a Command Training Program like Ensign Tilly has.
Saru's options for a command-trained associate might be severely limited. It's highly likely that Commander Reno and Lieutenant Commanders Stamets and Culber aren't command worthy and all, and Saru might only have Tilly and Nilsson (probably) to choose from in his 88-person crew. We don't know Nilsson's background or even a clear job for her (spore drive specialist, apparently, like Airiam, which is still probably a heavy job given their constant spore driving thus far this season), so maybe she's not fit as permanent Acting First Officer. I mean, the First Officer really doesn't need to do much, as I've argued in the past, but maybe Tilly is just the only placeholder until he can get approval from Vance to promote Nilsson or Rhys into the position, or better yet, get someone from the current century to put some discipline into this crew that it sorely needs.
I don't have a problem at all with Tilly being given this position in extraordinary circumstances. It just seems these circumstances aren't that extraordinary, and we've seen an (apparent) second officer being leap-frogged for no reason. None of the crew, not Burnham not Nilsson not Stamets not Detmer, has any apparent issue with Tilly in this job, so they must know something we don't to make this make more sense.
I love this show, and this episode in particular, because of the brilliance of the Vulcan/Ni'Var stuff. I'll have to wait and see how First Officer Tilly shapes up. Maybe my reservations will be addressed.
It makes sense, in one respect, if you remember that she was (as she reminded the viewer) a student of the Command Training Program, something we only know of Burnham participating in (and Saru via deleted scenes). Owo and Detmer and even Rhys and, I don't know, Linus might never have had aspirations beyond their stations, or at least never let them known by joining a Command Training Program like Ensign Tilly has.
Saru's options for a command-trained associate might be severely limited. It's highly likely that Commander Reno and Lieutenant Commanders Stamets and Culber aren't command worthy and all, and Saru might only have Tilly and Nilsson (probably) to choose from in his 88-person crew. We don't know Nilsson's background or even a clear job for her (spore drive specialist, apparently, like Airiam, which is still probably a heavy job given their constant spore driving thus far this season), so maybe she's not fit as permanent Acting First Officer. I mean, the First Officer really doesn't need to do much, as I've argued in the past, but maybe Tilly is just the only placeholder until he can get approval from Vance to promote Nilsson or Rhys into the position, or better yet, get someone from the current century to put some discipline into this crew that it sorely needs.
I don't have a problem at all with Tilly being given this position in extraordinary circumstances. It just seems these circumstances aren't that extraordinary, and we've seen an (apparent) second officer being leap-frogged for no reason. None of the crew, not Burnham not Nilsson not Stamets not Detmer, has any apparent issue with Tilly in this job, so they must know something we don't to make this make more sense.
I love this show, and this episode in particular, because of the brilliance of the Vulcan/Ni'Var stuff. I'll have to wait and see how First Officer Tilly shapes up. Maybe my reservations will be addressed.
Maybe it's because the Vulcan hand salute is borrowed from a Jewish prayer ceremony.
Yeah. Prime example- “Ok everyone, we get it...promoting Tilly isn’t optimal. Is there anything else anyone would like to discuss?”
Yeah...this one is a huge WTF. Like...W T F?
Man people can twist anything to fuel negativity. It’s amazing the mental effort that gets exerted in the name of being “justifiably angry“ about stuff.
The whole situation with Tilly reminds me of how everyone overreacted to the tardigrade. The writers would have known that tilly would have been a controversial choice among the fan base and i don't think the choice of tilly as acting xo was done on a whim. I'm keen to see where it goes.
Maybe I’m just ignorant, but I don’t even remotely know how they are equated with Jews?
Is it because the Romulans were displaced and chose to share the ancestral home with the remaining Vulcans with some tensions between them?
Is it because the Romulans were displaced and chose to share the ancestral home with the remaining Vulcans with some tensions between them?
In fairness Discovery would also be criticised if it was just continually introducing new races. That's what happened with Enterprise, 'why haven't we heard of the xindi', 'why haven't we heard of the hostile aliens that drain adrenal fluid from people', 'why didnt tng mention the mazerites' were all criticisms i saw back in the day.
I prefer Vulcans-as-Jews over Ferengi-as-Jews. Nimoy, I recall, had alot to say over the Jewishness of the Vulcan species, and it is an interesting take when done right.
That said, I don't see anything specifically written into the Ni'Var scenes as a take on Israel-Palestine. You always have to kinda squint to see any resemblance with Judaism in the first place, but you pretty much have to close your eyes and imagine if you want the Romulans as the Palestinians and any other choice sort of stretches out the metaphor into nonexistence.
That said, I don't see anything specifically written into the Ni'Var scenes as a take on Israel-Palestine. You always have to kinda squint to see any resemblance with Judaism in the first place, but you pretty much have to close your eyes and imagine if you want the Romulans as the Palestinians and any other choice sort of stretches out the metaphor into nonexistence.
Bumping Tilly to XO is a bit silly and stretches credulity, like the Kelvin Kirk jumping from cadet to Captain (although, if a transporter graphic in the film shows Kirk was a Lieutenant like Uhura and Sulu).
But it doesn't bug me as much because it's a trope of sea fiction, which Trek very much apes. Hornblower makes some jumps from Acting Lieutenant to Lieutenant to Commander.
There's no winning with Trekkies.
So the Vulcans are now Palenstinians?
Count me among those who have no major issue with Tilly being the first officer. I'll quote from Keith R. A. DeCandido:
And here's Devon Maloney of Vulture:
Far stranger things have happened in this universe, and we've seen all season that Tilly is becoming a prudent leader and delegator with sharp emotional acuity while others--Detmer, Nilsson, Stamets, and Burnham included--have struggled. I guess I just don't care about the possible ways I could nitpick the promotion, especially after seeing the embarrassingly explosive tantrums thrown about it on Reddit and Twitter. I like it. It resonates with me. First officers manage people; Tilly can do that.
And here's Devon Maloney of Vulture:
Far stranger things have happened in this universe, and we've seen all season that Tilly is becoming a prudent leader and delegator with sharp emotional acuity while others--Detmer, Nilsson, Stamets, and Burnham included--have struggled. I guess I just don't care about the possible ways I could nitpick the promotion, especially after seeing the embarrassingly explosive tantrums thrown about it on Reddit and Twitter. I like it. It resonates with me. First officers manage people; Tilly can do that.
So fans can imagine a metaphor not present but can't imagine a scenario why Tilly might be chosen as XO
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12013210/reviews
Wow, these reviews are like... final episode of Game of Thrones level! The general public REALLY hated this episode.
Wow, these reviews are like... final episode of Game of Thrones level! The general public REALLY hated this episode.
To be fair, both of those characters got quite some flak from the fans, especially in the first few years.
It’s a big galaxy.
That’s because she was either in another dimension or stuck on that sith planet during the OT, it’s only after the death of the emperor that she somehow got a lift off planet.
please no. I’m really glad they didn’t go the Burn-ham way.
I am finding it hard to truly enjoy... anything because of the relentless criticism on the internet. The first thing I always think is "oh that will cause a fuss on this or that message board"...
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