Spoilers The Ships of Lower Decks

[137th Gebirg]

It is a growing trend in the recent decade I really don't think I care for. I'm not asking for hard science in science fantasy (or science fiction, for that matter), but the producers of said movies seem to forget the operative word and common denominator for both is "science".

 

[Kpnuts]

Star Wars bullshits with the best of them

It really doesn't. There were design continuity issues within the first trailer or first episode of Lower Decks, let alone this non-existent shuttle bay in the third. I'm not saying SW doesn't mix things up occasionally but they put a lot more detail and attention into design than Trek. It's one of the reasons I wish Trek had its version of the Lucasfilm Story Group, but that's unlikely I guess.

 

[Timo]

I don't see any result from the supposed effort in SW, so where's the difference? CBS just pays fewer people for the nothing they do.

Even as "space opera" you would think people would want them to get basic physics right.

Or at least consistently wrong. Why do the bombers fly so much more slowly than Poe's X-wing? Or the much larger Falcon? I get it that "laser" bolts flying at the speed of arrows is a SW thing, and that's fine and well, nothing wrong with it, Trek does the same with phasers. But they all do that; the small craft are inconsistent within their own rules.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[137th Gebirg]

It really doesn't. There were design continuity issues within the first trailer or first episode of Lower Decks, let alone this non-existent shuttle bay in the third. I'm not saying SW doesn't mix things up occasionally but they put a lot more detail and attention into design than Trek. It's one of the reasons I wish Trek had its version of the Lucasfilm Story Group, but that's unlikely I guess.

A little leeway can be expected for a show that's being marginalized by some as "just a cartoon" (not saying you are doing that, but others certainly are around here). Not so much for live action films that are supposed to be dramatic and more grounded.

 

[BillJ]

It really doesn't. There were design continuity issues within the first trailer or first episode of Lower Decks, let alone this non-existent shuttle bay in the third. I'm not saying SW doesn't mix things up occasionally but they put a lot more detail and attention into design than Trek. It's one of the reasons I wish Trek had its version of the Lucasfilm Story Group, but that's unlikely I guess.

There is, at least, three times as much Star Trek out there. I don't need a "story group" to track minutiae, I just need good stories.

 

[Michael]

There were design continuity issues within the first trailer or first episode of Lower Decks

Not saying you are wrong, but I'm curious what you are referring to here.

 

[Kpnuts]

There is, at least, three times as much Star Trek out there. I don't need a "story group" to track minutiae, I just need good stories.

Ok? This discussion is about starship design quality and consistency?

(and fyi the story group handle stories too, the clue is in the name)

 

[Kpnuts]

Not saying you are wrong, but I'm curious what you are referring to here.

The registry number on the shuttle not matching the Cerritos and the number of windows in the front end of the saucer not matching the master systems display ("Map") from ep 2.

Yes, they're small details and 99.9% of people won't notice or care, I certainly didn't at the time nor do I care, but they do point to a more haphazard design process.

There might be more, those are the two that I've seen commented on in here.

 

[BillJ]

Yes, they're small details and 99.9% of people won't notice or care, I certainly didn't at the time nor do I care, but they do point to a more haphazard design process.

Or somebody in the animation department made a mistake?

 

[fireproof78]

Star Wars bullshits with the best of them, if one likes it they'll eat it up and defend it, if one doesn't, then they see the issues.

As illustrated here in this thread. Star Wars is bull when it comes to science. Fandom will do mental gymnastics to maintain cohesion without care that writers missed it. Star Wars just spins its books better.

 

[Kpnuts]

Or somebody in the animation department made a mistake?

Yes, that's my point.

 

[Kpnuts]

Star Wars is bull when it comes to science

Star Wars isn't science fiction.

 

[BillJ]

Yes, that's my point.

I don't really think that points to a haphazard process. Just that people make mistakes. I'm sure Star Wars has mistakes as well.

 

[fireproof78]

Star Wars isn't science fiction.

It's also bull with consistency. It just papers over it well.

I don't really think that points to a haphazard process. Just that people make mistakes. I'm sure Star Wars has mistakes as well.

Star wars was among the top rank in movie mistakes. Again, it bullshits very well.

 

[Gepard]

If a franchise with space ships and lasers isn't science fiction, then I don't know what is.

 

[Kpnuts]

It's also bull with consistency. It just papers over it well.

I've no idea what you mean. At least modern day Star Wars.

 

[Tuskin38]

If a franchise with space ships and lasers isn't science fiction, then I don't know what is.

It's science-Fantasy Space Fantasy, whatever you want to call it.

I don't think there's any way to have a breathable atmosphere on a planet only 600-some kilometers. Just not enough gravity, unless the magical nature of the Kyber crystals (or some other magic) increases the mass of the planetoid to make life sustainable without space suits.

X-Wings fly in space like they're in atmosphere, because George had their movements based on WW2 fighter planes.

Ships come to a stop when their engines are destroyed/shutdown, even though physics would dictate they keep drifting due to momentum. And I'm not talking about TLJ here, this happened in Legends as well.

Mustafar is only 4,200 KM in diameter, and is completely volcanic, and yet they were breathing fine and walking around without any protection.

Star Wars doesn't follow real world physics all the time, it's a fantasy setting.

 

[Tomalak]

JJ Abrams doesn't give a shit about crystals or the mechanics of the Starkiller base. He came up with a cool idea that 'topped' the Death Star and suited the story he wanted to tell. It was someone else's job to clean it up afterwards and make sense of it all by inventing magical crystals and suchlike, because Lucasfilm/Disney know there is a fan market for these products. Most cinemagoers don't care about it.

FWIW I don't think George Lucas particularly cared about the technical or scientific plausibility of the story he wanted to tell either. He knew it was a fairy tale with a space setting

I don't really see any difference here. Lower Decks is a cartoon based on TNG, which did have an active and thoughtful design department, but ultimately was always in service of the stories the scriptwriters wanted to tell. Warp drive and transporters aren't particularly plausible either, so writers and technical advisors come up with things like dilithum crystals and Heisenberg Compensators to explain away various scientific impossibilities.

 

[fireproof78]

I've no idea what you mean. At least modern day Star Wars.

That Star Wars isn't consistent even within itself. It just is able to fill out the details and smooth them over, either through books or retcons extremely well.

FWIW I don't think George Lucas particularly cared about the technical or scientific plausibility of the story he wanted to tell either. He knew it was a fairy tale with a space setting

Exactly. Lucas did what he wanted in the film universe and then fans came along afterwards to make it work.

I don't really see any difference here. Lower Decks is a cartoon based on TNG, which did have an active and thoughtful design department, but ultimately was always in service of the stories the scriptwriters wanted to tell. Warp drive and transporters aren't particularly plausible either, so writers and technical advisors come up with things like dilithum crystals and Heisenberg Compensators to explain away various scientific impossibilities.

Because there isn't really a difference.

 

[Kpnuts]

That Star Wars isn't consistent even within itself. It just is able to fill out the details and smooth them over, either through books or retcons extremely well.

Any examples? I'm surprised you think that because, especially since Disney took over, consistency has been a big thing for them.

JJ Abrams doesn't give a shit about crystals or the mechanics of the Starkiller base. He came up with a cool idea that 'topped' the Death Star and suited the story he wanted to tell. It was someone else's job to clean it up afterwards and make sense of it all by inventing magical crystals and suchlike, because Lucasfilm/Disney know there is a fan market for these products. Most cinemagoers don't care about it.

100% agree JJ Abrams doesn't care about that kind of thing, but your original post suggested Starkiller was completely implausible, and so all I was doing was giving some backstory to it. Obviously that backstory didn't need to be in the film so most won't know or care, but it points to actual thought being put into the design process, whether that's by the Director, Doug Chiang or (in that case) Lucasfilm as a whole.

Is there so much care and attention put into Trek? I'm not so sure.