Why the soft reboot?

[jaime]

The central pickle the writers had is they wanted to create repeated existential crises to the Federation even though it kind of stretched plausibility given it was only ten years prior to TOS and the events within were never mentioned.

I mean, Season 1:

• Confirmed Michael Burnham was one of the most infamous (and heroic) people in Starfleet history.
• Introduced the most technologically-advanced ship in Starfleet which played an instrumental role in the Klingon War.
• Showed that the Klingons brought the Federation to its knees and were within minutes of bombarding/invading Earth.
• Gave us a technology (the Spore Drive) which can travel anywhere in the entire universe instantaneously, Not only that, it can also travel to alternate universes, and travel through time.

This was really hard to square away with the existing timeline for obvious reasons. Of course, some of the same criticisms could have been made of Enterprise, since it introduced a flawed "hero" who singlehandedly saved Earth from a risk we never heard anything about before. However, at least that was a relatively distant prequel, not a prequel immediately prior to TOS.

I think Season 2 handled things much better overall. While there was ultimately a struggle which threatened "the entire galaxy" this was always happening enough on the DL that as far as the Federation as a whole was concerned, nothing much of consequence happened. Though the elaboration of the relationship between Michael and Spock was a bit concerning, insofar as if the two of them reconciled it would have to be asked what happened to Michael that she was later on never a part of Spock's life.

But really, I think Kurtzman & company simply want to do something similar to the Klingon War/Control every single season. They want a big epic battle where the entire fate of the galaxy stands in the balance and it's up to the Hero Ship to save the day. You just can't tell these kinds of stories at that point in the timeline without people asking questions. Which is why Strange New Worlds - which appears to start in the timeline immediately after Discovery Season 2 - is apparently going to be more small-bore episodic stories. The problem wasn't the point in the timeline, it was the kind of story they wanted to tell didn't belong as a prequel.

It’s a shame the production team don’t come on here isn’t it. I mean I (and others) basically laid that all out for them just after the show was announced. It only took millions of dollars and two seasons to find out why Enterprise had enough problems nearly twenty years ago

Still, we now have so much Trek that eventually they will land on something ok again.

 

[fireproof78]

Still, we now have so much Trek that eventually they will land on something ok again.

What does OK look like? I'm still waiting.

 

[eschaton]

It’s a shame the production team don’t come on here isn’t it. I mean I (and others) basically laid that all out for them just after the show was announced. It only took millions of dollars and two seasons to find out why Enterprise had enough problems nearly twenty years ago

Still, we now have so much Trek that eventually they will land on something ok again.

As I said years ago, the main issue - at least for me - is none of the "epic" elements were needed for the character beats they wanted for Michael.

The core narrative of the season required Michael make a big error which resulted in her being drummed out of Starfleet and causing her commanding officer's death. It really didn't need to be the start of a war - it could have been some random-ass border skirmish with the Klingons. The seeming pointlessness of the death would, in many ways, make it more impactful. Then Michael is eventually drafted when the war starts up for real and they need warm bodies to fill up crew rosters. She's not anyone special, and Lorca doesn't have the secret hots for her - she's just someone with training, and they're willing to take a risk. The Discovery itself, however, is far from cutting-edge as a ship - it's creaky and breaking down, but they need every ship they can get on the front. Then we get to really participate in the war, seeing the perspective of a decidedly non-hero ship trying to stay afloat in hard times. Maybe Stamets is still onboard as a drafted science officer, and figures out the Spore Drive mid-season and jury rigs it into the ship. But thematically, it makes more sense to have both Burnham and the ship start from the bottom and work their way up. Maybe the whole crew would be a bunch of "losers" like her (or ultra-green like Tilly) meaning we get to watch them all level up in tandem.

 

[DonIago]

IIRD, in Fuller's original plan where Lorca was in fact from an alternate reality instead of the Mirror Universe, he returns to his reality by the end of the season and stays there.

Well, that's what did end up happening, from a certain point of view...

 

[plynch]

HUGE dangers in a prequel = no drama. We know earth ain't gonna get creamed. Nor is the eeevi! AI gonna win (can't remember what its evil aim was, frankly) b/c the primary colored fedefation is gonna go 'splorin with the Big E and the big three in 2266 and Cheekoov in 67.

Hey, producers, dial back the jeopardy and it's actually more dramatic. I cared abo ut mere WORLDS, through DS9! Sometimes even a lone farmer on Bajor, and if he'd have to move.Write it well and we'll care.

 

[fireproof78]

Someone show me were we actually thought the world would end.

 

[EnderAKH]

Psssst.... Can I tell you a secret? In shows like this with good guys as the main characters, I NEVER think the bad guys are going to win, or the Earth will get blown up, or our hero will die at the hands on a slow moving laser beam. The interesting part is HOW the world doesn't end, and/or the journey that takes the characters on.

 

[fireproof78]

Psssst.... Can I tell you a secret? In shows like this with good guys as the main characters, I NEVER think the bad guys are going to win, or the Earth will get blown up, or our hero will die at the hands on a slow moving laser beam. The interesting part is HOW the world doesn't end, and/or the journey that takes the characters on.

Ooohhhh...it all makes sense. Here I was taking notes on how to stop the world from ending.

 

[Quinton]

23rd.

The 22nd Century is Archer's time and when ENT takes place.

Wow, I screwed that up hilariously. Thanks for the correction.

 

[STEPhon IT]

What does Richard Dean Anderson have to do with Star Trek?

What does a giant space Tardigrade has anything to do with a prequel to TOS? Hard to imagine TOS would simply ignore such a giant leap in star travel?

 

[fireproof78]

What does a giant space Tardigrade has anything to do with a prequel to TOS? Hard to imagine TOS would simply ignore such a giant leap in star travel?

I think it is in line with the same type of fantastical science fiction elements of TOS (giant amoeba, among others). Personally, I would have had the spores just reject the Discovery and not allow access period, which still could happen to explain the lack of access later on. But, as it stands it fits right in with fantastical tech that is left behind never to be spoke of again.

 

[Phoenix219]

Col. O'Neill, commander of the USS Stargate? One can hope, can't one?

Complete with Spore Drive to open Stargate?

 

[STEPhon IT]

I think it is in line with the same type of fantastical science fiction elements of TOS (giant amoeba, among others). Personally, I would have had the spores just reject the Discovery and not allow access period, which still could happen to explain the lack of access later on. But, as it stands it fits right in with fantastical tech that is left behind never to be spoke of again.

Never to be spoken again??? A source of star travel which could revolutionize or even eclipse the Star Trek Universes way of exploration and that's what you would like to believe??? Wow.

 

[fireproof78]

Never to be spoken again??? A source of star travel which could revolutionize or even eclipse the Star Trek Universes way of exploration and that's what you would like to believe??? Wow.

The Kelvans modification of the ship engines. The Medusans as navigators. Warp 13 in both TOS and Warp 10+ in TNG, with "thought as the basis of reality.

Yeah, I've seen the same old thing in Trek and it gets just binned for the sake of convenience. Discovery is neither new nor offensive to me in Trek.

 

[STEPhon IT]

The Kelvans modification of the ship engines. The Medusans as navigators. Warp 13 in both TOS and Warp 10+ in TNG, with "thought as the basis of reality.

Yeah, I've seen the same old thing in Trek and it gets just binned for the sake of convenience. Discovery is neither new nor offensive to me in Trek.

So this idea was introduced in one episode, yeah I see your point.

 

[NCC-73515]

The Kelvans modification of the ship engines. The Medusans as navigators. Warp 13 in both TOS and Warp 10+ in TNG, with "thought as the basis of reality.

Yeah, I've seen the same old thing in Trek and it gets just binned for the sake of convenience. Discovery is neither new nor offensive to me in Trek.

It would be great if all those things are connected to the spores, like the Kelvans having some kind of access to the mycelial plane without even knowing what it is, or the Medusans having a similar brain structure as the tardigrades, or the Traveler somehow connecting with the Ja'Sepp... The Caretaker and Suspiria were sporocystians, that would be a great connection as well. And fluidic space, all organic with walking shroomheads, could be connected to the mycelial plane, etc. XD

Psssst.... Can I tell you a secret? In shows like this with good guys as the main characters, I NEVER think the bad guys are going to win, or the Earth will get blown up, or our hero will die at the hands on a slow moving laser beam. The interesting part is HOW the world doesn't end, and/or the journey that takes the characters on.

I thought ENT can't be interesting cause we know Earth will survive. Then came S3 and it was way more exciting that I thought it could be!

It really didn't need to be the start of a war - it could have been some random-ass border skirmish with the Klingons.

I think they simply thought "People like DS9 because of the war", and that's why they opened the show with starting a war...

 

[Phoenix219]

I guess I'm wondering what would have become of Lorca if they hadn't disposed of him in the MU. If he's just a more militant captain, is he still in command at the end of S1? Is he killed in action at some point? How far would he have to push the crew before they'd muti...actually, it would have been quite the bookend to the season if Burnham led a far more justified mutiny at the end of the season to contrast with her flawed rebellion at the beginning.

If I was rewriting the ending, I would have had Lorca claiming to be a moderate, trying to reform his universe with the principles of the Federation, and make her choose him over the Emperess. He would give them information to help win the Klingon War based on resistance Klingon info from the Mirror Universe, and send them on their way..... then sit down and reveal the Tantalus device, with a couple sublte hints of what is to come, a foreboding vibe. Cut.

 

[eschaton]

HUGE dangers in a prequel = no drama. We know earth ain't gonna get creamed. Nor is the eeevi! AI gonna win (can't remember what its evil aim was, frankly) b/c the primary colored fedefation is gonna go 'splorin with the Big E and the big three in 2266 and Cheekoov in 67.

Hey, producers, dial back the jeopardy and it's actually more dramatic. I cared about mere WORLDS, through DS9! Sometimes even a lone farmer on Bajor, and if he'd have to move.Write it well and we'll care.

I don't think the problem is the ultimate outcome being in doubt. The "global stakes" as others noted, were never really in question.

I mean, let's go back to Best of Both Worlds Part 1. At the cliffhanger, Earth appeared in imminent danger - the first time such high stakes were explicitly made the focus of the story in TV Trek. However, the stakes we cared about as viewers related to Picard, because it looked impossible to defeat the Borg without killing Locutus. No one really knew if Stewart was staying on for the fourth season yet, meaning it was a fantastic cliffhanger. We were kept on edge not because we didn't know if Earth would be saved, but we didn't know how Earth would be saved.

IMHO this is why the "epic stakes" of the first season of DIS fell apart. With the death of T'Kuvma and then Kol and the destruction of the Ship of the Dead in the first half of the arc, all personal connection Michael had to the Klingon War (save for being wrongly blamed for it starting) was gone - to the point where the final two episodes didn't even have an identifiable villain (except kinda sorta MU Georgiou) because the show blew through its four Klingon characters and was all out of alternates. Season 2's endgame had its flaws, but worked better because the epic stakes were (to a somewhat absurd degree) tied directly into Michael and her familial backstory.

If I was rewriting the ending, I would have had Lorca claiming to be a moderate, trying to reform his universe with the principles of the Federation, and make her choose him over the Emperess. He would give them information to help win the Klingon War based on resistance Klingon info from the Mirror Universe, and send them on their way..... then sit down and reveal the Tantalus device, with a couple sublte hints of what is to come, a foreboding vibe. Cut.

I mean, we know by the time of Mirror Mirror the Terran Empire moderates somewhat - considering Spock is openly serving on the Enterprise as a non-human. I think it would have made tremendous sense for MU Lorca to end up in the Federation, realize that non-humans can be competent and loyal- and can make the empire even stronger! But of course he's still an authoritarian bastard, just no longer a racist

 

[RAMA]

While I'm sure freeing themselves from conflicting with most canon is appealing to the producers, Discovery basically has fulfilled the original intention of an anthology series but for each season, with a very different background, ie: Season 1: The Klingon War 2. The Pike/Kiek/Enterprise era story 3. Far future. Seems to be working very well for them.

RAMA

 

[plynch]

Psssst.... Can I tell you a secret? In shows like this with good guys as the main characters, I NEVER think the bad guys are going to win, or the Earth will get blown up, or our hero will die at the hands on a slow moving laser beam. The interesting part is HOW the world doesn't end, and/or the journey that takes the characters on.

Thank you for the secret. I will tell no one.

Can I tell you a secret using the same snarky tone you used? How nice.

(Preface)
I don't care how made-up beings solve some made-up problem. That way lies technobabble. Or Riker or Saru's sister appearing with a fleet at the last minute. (Or "the resistance" in SW9!)

2. My secret is this: it is actually possible to have both character development AND a plot of which you really don't know the resolution in advance.

Bad: Evil [x] will destroy Earth or all life in [federation/galaxy/multiverse].

Good: Something we are led to care about is in jeopardy and we really don't know if, or how well, things will turn out in the end.

I'll play the DS9 card here. Watched it twice through before. Doing so again, and it's been years, so I remember very little.

It's really about Bajor and Sisko and the prophets. Bajor is not in danger of being exploded or tentacle-monstered. But I really don't know what's going to develop with it. Ok, the pah wraiths (evil) have to be defeated -- no drama there, but they're not THE MAIN PLOT as the movies and CBS trek (and other franchises) really stress. The Dominion War is relegated to the background. I know they won't win, but a reshuffled Alpha is certainly a possibility. Ad to this the fact that (I do remember this much) -- the end is cryptic and you're left wondering still. (What/who the heck are those prophets, and when will - if?- the Sisko return? Poor Jake.)

There are plenty of episodic Treks where some planet or society or even an individual has a problem and you really don't know how it's gonna go. And it doesn't always go well. "Private Little War" comes to mind in TOS.

As opposed to: if the main plot is destruction of THE UNIVERSE or EARTH, just why even have that as a plot? To provide characters a chance to relate, I know. But you could have both -- character moments and a plot that is not foreordained.

I think this is why I liked SW ep 8 over 9. 8 was way more interesting. Had really no idea where it was going. 9 -- once it got rolling: HMM -- I BET Rey defeats the Emperor. Zzzzz.

I overmake my point.

Yes, I know that you knew the universe wasn't gonna get smucked. My question is why not have BOTH character moments (and don't get me started on the MANY rushed and missed character moments in PIC) . . . and a non-preordained plot?

Remember: this is my secret. Shhh.