The Monster Maroons

[Bry_Sinclair]

I weird thought has just popped into my head, so I thought I'd ask the question.

Given that the short life expectancy of redshirts was well-established from TOS, what was the fan reaction when TWOK was released and everyone was now a redshirt--especially after the death of Terrell and Spock? Was there any worry that anyone could now fall victim to the redshirt curse?

 

[NCC-73515]

There was a fan film years ago where the redshirts demanded justice and it ended with the whole fleet getting the maroons XD

 

[FormerLurker]

My first thought seeing the title of the thread was "Another species like the Pakleds. Oh joy."

 

[fireproof78]

I weird thought has just popped into my head, so I thought I'd ask the question.

Given that the short life expectancy of redshirts was well-established from TOS, what was the fan reaction when TWOK was released and everyone was now a redshirt--especially after the death of Terrell and Spock? Was there any worry that anyone could now fall victim to the redshirt curse?

Well, given how the other colored shirts faired in TMP I figured it just mean anyone was expendable.

Also, same feeling with TNG.

 

[Dukhat]

I don't remember even giving it a second thought. Rather, I was just happy they didn't reuse the TMP uniforms.

And on the subject of monster maroons, it turns out that they (or minute variations thereof) were the longest-lasting Starfleet uniforms ever. They started in TWOK in 2285 and lasted right up to the first season of TNG in 2364. That's 79 years!

 

[Warped9]

Years ago someone did an actual count of how many of each colour shirs bought it in TOS and I recall the general perception didn’t match the reality.

That said those in security would naturally be at greater risk than other departments.

Regarding the monster maroons—Yuch! Hated them.

 

[Qonundrum]

If TOS made the Security division blue then there'd be a running meme of "blue shirt deaths". TNG swapped the scheme to get around that joke, which worked because nobody then discussed goldshirt deaths for a decade. Red is also the most visible color on the spectrum (as humans see it), and can easily be attached to more memorable situations.

As for the TWOK-TUC uniforms, they rock. Maybe could have been a different HSL value and I'm about to dig up Photoshop... but they do have a dress uniform visage all on their own...

 

[Takeru]

TNG swapped the scheme to get around that joke, ...

They swapped it because Patrick Stewart looked better in red. No one cared about the joke enough to make a change because of it.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

They swapped it because Patrick Stewart looked better in red. No one cared about the joke enough to make a change because of it.

This has been the myth for a long time but is this actually factual. Is there anything backing this story about?

 

[Mysterion]

I weird thought has just popped into my head, so I thought I'd ask the question.

Given that the short life expectancy of redshirts was well-established from TOS, what was the fan reaction when TWOK was released and everyone was now a redshirt--especially after the death of Terrell and Spock? Was there any worry that anyone could now fall victim to the redshirt curse?

Don't recall hearing much if any talk in that regard.
Not a bad looking uniform, but not really a good day-to-day duty uniform. Should ne used as a formal and/or dress uniform. The coveralls we see on other folks populating the ship should be the standard uniform for daily work duty.

 

[Warped9]

Okay I just did a quick count for discussion’s sake. Note that I restricted the deaths to the crew of the Enterprise during Kirk’s 5-year mission and those we can actually verify. Therefore I cannot count the deaths of the crews of other starships such as the Intrepid, Constellation, Defiant, Exeter and Excalibur.

Also I didn’t count the deaths in WNMHGB other than the ones we actually saw because we cannot identify who the other listed casualties are. WNMHGB also complicates things because red did not yet exist as a division colour, but rather sand. Both Mitchell and Kelso were wearing sand even though they were at the helm/nav console. Do we count them as red or gold? If sand is later replaced by red then that makes them “redshirts,” but if we go by assignment later throughout TOS then they would be gold shirts. I also didn’t count the loss of Pike’s yeoman in “The Cage” who could have been wearing gold or sand.

Gold = 6
Blue = 5
Red (Engineering) = 6
Red (Security) = 17

Interesting that the number of security deaths is equivalent to deaths from all other departments combined. Yes, security looks to be a higher risk occupation, but it looks like if you’re aboard a deep space starship not being in security doesn’t make one automatically safer.

I think it’s not so much being in security per se, but actually landing party duty that puts you at greater risk. Most of the security deaths occurred planetside whereas aboard ship everyone seems to be pretty much at equal risk.

 

[JoseNoodles]

I never really thought to much about the TWOK uniform until I became an adult, at which point I felt it was too formal looking to be a uniform for everyday duties. Can't say I really ever made a connection TOS redshirts. I do wonder about those security uniforms from TMP, that I believe also appeared in TWOK and subsequent films. They made the wearer look like a football player, and I wonder if they are supposed to suggest that TMP security members were more like Marines than just guards.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I think someone calculated the per capita rate of the division colors at some point .
Result was that blue shirts actually had the highest rate of death.
Logical. You have vastly more red shirts , so of course total fatalities will be higher.
But with a relatively low number of blue shirts even a few deaths makes their survival chances sketchy.
Of course, security, engineers and operation officers all wearing the same color is another bias.
You could say being a starfleet Officer on a starship has a pretty high chance of being deadly.

 

[diankra]

The FASA TNG book in 88 claimed the colour swap was down to a strike by redshifts who insisted on a colour change.

 

[Pauln6]

Redshirts were put in white in TMP but it showed the blood too much.

 

[Takeru]

This has been the myth for a long time but is this actually factual. Is there anything backing this story about?

No, there's nothing backing it up afaik but at least it's an explanation that makes sense. Producers would care about how the lead actor looks in a certain color, a "lol redshirts" joke within the fandom is not something I can see them caring about too much. Especially when a redshirt was immediately victimized by Q, if they cared about the joke so much that it lead to a division color swap that guy would have worn a different color too.

The FASA TNG book in 88 claimed the colour swap was down to a strike by redshifts who insisted on a colour change.

That makes literally zero sense, not even as a humorous explanation.

 

[Warped9]

The gold/green, blue and red shirts of TOS popped on the smallish colour CRT televisions. It helped sell the idea of colour televisions to the public. The more muted colours of “The Cage,” WNMHGB and TMP were more realistic.

I never liked beige and I feel it was a poor choice to have as a uniform colour. Gold, khaki or soft taupe browns would have worked better for TMP. The greys were also dull.

I could accept mure muted uniform colours, but I feel they chose the wrong tones and there seemed to be no discernible logic in how the tones they chose were applied. I think this is a case of where too much thought went into it. Also the design of the TMP uniforms could indeed be seen as futuristic, but they were too jarring to then 20th century perceptions. They reached too far in trying to depict a convincing 23rd century style of attire rather than simply try to evolve the established TOS uniform.

The monster maroons were a reactionary design in the opposite direction. Rather than being a logical evolution of the TOS design they were made to look like a futuristic version of 19th century style naval dress. It was absurd as everyday service wear and doesn’t look at all believable.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I weird thought has just popped into my head, so I thought I'd ask the question.

Given that the short life expectancy of redshirts was well-established from TOS, what was the fan reaction when TWOK was released and everyone was now a redshirt--especially after the death of Terrell and Spock? Was there any worry that anyone could now fall victim to the redshirt curse?

Not by most, IIRC. I think it was because the "redshirt curse" may have been seen as broken with the earlier TMP uniforms. By the time of TWOK, the really red shirts were now being worn by Starfleet cadets/midshipman officers.

The FASA TNG book in 88 claimed the colour swap was down to a strike by redshifts who insisted on a colour change.

That makes literally zero sense, not even as a humorous explanation.

It wasn't really a strike, but a way by Starfleet to dispel the notion of redshirts being "second-class officers, menials, and cannon fodder." I think it was meant to be an inside joke to Trekkies/Trekkers by FASA and not to be taken remotely seriously, IMO.

 

[FormerLurker]

Redshirts were put in white in TMP but it showed the blood too much.

So of course they put them back in red thereafter.

 

[Pauln6]

So of course they put them back in red thereafter.

Brightly coloured uniforms make everyone a target. They should have stuck with beige, or even the beige landing jackets lined with kevlar.