Spoilers On Seven and sexuality

[Skipper]

Seven breaking up with Chakotay is the least surprising and requires no additional explanation.

I had a similar discussion on another board. A lot of people asking "What happened to Chakotay?!? What happened to their relationship???".

My answer: "The same thing which happens statically to the to the majority of the relationships? They just broke up? Twenty years have passed people!"

 

[Kpnuts]

What's shoehorned about it as opposed to Tom and B'Lanna's relationship, for instance?

Tom and B'Lanna are actual characters. We know a lot about them and got to know plenty over the course of each season. Culber is in there exclusively to be half of a gay relationship. That's literally his only point on the show. That's my issue.

 

[Kpnuts]

Let us have some representation, too, damn it.

Why is this "represntation" thing so important to you? I really don't get it.

3 gay people out of 136 still seems low.

Why are you counting the entire crew? We don't know anything about over 125 of them. Stick to the senior crew and you're left with 3 gay characters out of 7.

If you didn’t have a problem with politics in casting before, then why would you have a problem with it now?

I never said I didn't have a problem with it before. My point is the pendulum can swing too far the other way.

 

[SolarisOne]

Why is this "represntation" thing so important to you? I really don't get it.

This question is quite ironic, considering the other posts you've made in this thread.

Culber is in there exclusively to be half of a gay relationship. That's literally his only point on the show. That's my issue.

I actually agree, and if you had just said this in the beginning, I wouldn't have had an issue with it. Too little, too late, as they say.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tom and B'Lanna are actual characters. We know a lot about them and got to know plenty over the course of each season. Culber is in there exclusively to be half of a gay relationship. That's literally his only point on the show. That's my issue.

They were both in Rent (on Boradway) together.

It's stunt casting for theatre nerds.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[NCC-73515]

I am not sure if she ever was human

She was species 125, far older than the human 5618.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Why is this "represntation" thing so important to you? I really don't get it.

Because LGBT people exist?

 

[Kpnuts]

Too little, too late, as they say.

I wasn't trying to convince you, merely stating my opinion.

Because LGBT people exist?

Aren't you missing a few letters, symbols etc? People might complain.

I realise they exist. I am one myself, and I don't need to see myself on tv to feel good about myself. Sure the occasional one is cool, but when it's done to the extent these shows are doing it it's just patronising and embarrassing, to me at least.

 

[Rainard Fox]

There's no quota, no need to overthink it, just don't shoehorn in political characters constantly. Culber is already a walking billboard, with zero character traits apart from being gay. Why not actually develop characters instead of fishing for headlines about how "progressive" the show is. Seriously, two seasons in, does anyone know anything about Culber? Apart from him liking opera?

Sign here. Any sort of forced representation easily goes to showing a stereotype instead of character. More, if you in the group, you have to clean itself after. Even if you don't see yourself in the character, many see him or her in you.

Look, I was a ginger girl. It's an issue when kids teasing you or pull your hair. It's an issue with relatives when your mother blond and father blackhaired. Do I need a representation? OMG I can't stand quite every ginger girl they showed on TV. They all were funny, clumsy and more or less stupid.
Formally my representation in DSC is Sylvia Tilly. Funny, clumsy and more or less stupid. Nothing changed.

I stuck to Trek because you could see your representation in a character who has no resemblance with you by formal criteria. For me it was Spock - descendant of two worlds, a fight and unity of opposites. So I feel weird when I hear that only woman can represent womankind, only gay character could represent a gay community, the same with races, physical disabilities, etc.

Same with Seven's sexuality. The girl resonated with many people including queer persons in the times when she actually has no sexuality - she was a child in a sexy woman body. Now they pull her toward several teams and many insists that she isn't belong to others. Very dividing moment for fans.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

The thing is... there are a lot of un- or underdeveloped characters on the shows. Yet nobody claims these characters ar just there for representation (say, of a robotic-enhanced woman - yeah, if you develop her just when you kill her off, it doesn't count!, a white man, a presumably straight character...). With Culber, the first thought about his lack of development was, for me: He's the damn doctor! They managed to make every doctor interesting, why not him? Only, I didn't think: Because he's gay. If he wasn't gay, he'd be well developed, therefore, he shouldn't be gay. More GLBT characters >> less well-rounded characters.

And Data being, apparently, straight wasn't divisive - it Seven's being bi or gay is, that is a problem with the fans, not the show.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I realise they exist. I am one myself, and I don't need to see myself on tv to feel good about myself. Sure the occasional one is cool, but when it's done to the extent these shows are doing it it's just patronising and embarrassing, to me at least.

How about as an acknowledgement that it's normal and accepted in society?

 

[Rainard Fox]

With Culber, the first thought about his lack of development was, for me: He's the damn doctor! They managed to make every doctor interesting, why not him? Only, I didn't think: Because he's gay.

Stamets is gay and a brilliant character. In my list of favorites he is one of top-3 in s1, and one of top-5 in s2.
It looks like Rapp not only has more time and material than Cruz, but the same time Rapp invested much more work in the role. For me, Rapp himself looks very different from Stamets, Culber looks the same Cruz.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Tom and B'Lanna are actual characters. We know a lot about them and got to know plenty over the course of each season. Culber is in there exclusively to be half of a gay relationship. That's literally his only point on the show. That's my issue.

So you are just as angry about Keiko O ' Brien ?

 

[frankieteardrop]

So I feel weird when I hear that only woman can represent womankind, only gay character could represent a gay community, the same with races, physical disabilities, etc.

Who is making that argument? Certainly no one in this thread.

LGBT folks wanting to see more concrete representation in media does not negate their potential identification with straight/cis characters, nor is it based on any sort of ideological imperative that we must only relate to characters exactly like us. It is simply the acknowledgement that media is a powerful agent of influence, and that portrayals of minorities in television and film not only affect how the wider world perceives them, but also, in many cases, how they perceive themselves. For some people who are particularly isolated or stuck in hostile environments, it is even as serious as a matter of life and death, as Michael Chabon pointed out in a recent interview with Queerty. There are a variety of reasons increased, unambiguous and varied representation is considered a must, but none of them are predicated on forcing people to only identify with certain characters. It's about expanding empathy, not limiting it.

Same with Seven's sexuality. The girl resonated with many people including queer persons in the times when she actually has no sexuality - she was a child in a sexy woman body. Now they pull her toward several teams and many insists that she isn't belong to others. Very dividing moment for fans.

Making Seven canonically bi/fluid isn't putting her on any sort of "team" or making her inaccessible to anyone, and if someone feels they can no longer invest themselves in her or her storyline simply because she isn't straight, then that says a lot more about them than it does the show.

Regarding the "child in a sexy woman's body" aspect of Seven, her aloof, emotionally constricted manner and alienation from her own humanity is part of what drew me to her as a viewer, but the bizarre and borderline fetishized infantilization of her character is one thing I'm very glad did not get carried over from Voyager.

 

[Jayson1]

Tom and B'Lanna are actual characters. We know a lot about them and got to know plenty over the course of each season. Culber is in there exclusively to be half of a gay relationship. That's literally his only point on the show. That's my issue.

We have had characters like that before. Kassiday Yates as much as I like the character was their to be a love interest to Sisko. Same with Keiko to Miles O'Brien Leeta sort of to Bashir but then it became Rom. That was a interesting changeup.

Jason

 

[cooleddie74]

Yes. About 5 people in a crew of roughly 136 is clearly the pendulum swinging too far the other way. Star Trek is doomed and we sat by and did nothing to help stop it.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

BTW people keep saying 3 LGBT+ people in Discovery
Who is the 3rd after Stamets and Culber? this is a genuine question as I dont watch it alot

 

[cooleddie74]

There were female or male crewmembers at the dance party in the Mudd episode who appeared to be together as couples, bumping the number up to 3, 4 or maybe 5.

 

[Rainard Fox]

BTW people keep saying 3 LGBT+ people in Discovery
Who is the 3rd after Stamets and Culber? this is a genuine question as I dont watch it alot

Jett Reno told she was married a woman.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I hope that the PIC crew go full on like the crew of The Connaught from The Expanse just to really mess with heads