Spoilers Episode 7 "Nepenthe"

[XCV330]

They don't though. They're atheists.

Atheism does not mean one may not have religious beliefs.

Jainism is an atheisstic religion, as are some forms of Buddhism. Both have afterlife concepts. There are plenty of people who have no religion OR belief in deities that also have some belief or are open to the idea of an afterlife. Frankly if the universe is a holographic projection, it's as likely as anything.

 

[Longinus]

"Most people" is not supported in the movies or books. If anything the opposite is true, beyond a few high profile statements made by primary characters. The TOS Enterprise had a chapel (non denominational), Cassidy Yates references that her father would rather her be married by a Priest, there was a special function for the Hindu Festival of Lights (though an argument could be made that this is merely a traditional ceremony and that, like Christmas, it is followed and practiced even by non-religious people).

Having a room for ceremonies such as weddings does not imply religion, nor does participating traditional ceremonies. Besides, I was specifically talking about 24th century. Cassidy's reference to a priest is a pretty clear reference to religion, I grant you that. It is part of DS9 trying to ruin the setting of TNG. Regardless, there being one 24th century human whose father might have been religious doesn't change the big picture. Superstitions are mostly gone and that's how it should be.

 

[Yistaan]

And religion is already said to persist in both ENT and TOS so it's ludicrous to believe that spirituality or even organized religion will be all but extinct on both Earth and in the wider Federation just 100 years after Kirk. Religion - whether or not somebody likes or agrees with it - has been ingrained into human genetic makeup for millennia if not longer and just a couple of hundred years of warp drive and cures for most diseases isn't going to change that.

Not entirely sure how religion in Trek came into all this, but per @Racefuel I'm missing a few posts so I'll comment as best I can.

I strongly suspect that with time travel, a lot of the religious figures may have been studied in person by Federation time travelers doing research and found to not be supernatural. In which case, religion would be affected. I think there may still be belief in an afterlife due to near death experiences, but even Voyager tackled that by having an alien create a fake near death experience for Janeway. Admittedly that doesn't mean all near death experiences are aliens, so religions might be reconfigured around those instead of ancient figures who time travelers may have found to be more ordinary than holy books described.

 

[saladdays]

And given that in countries with high education and living standard religiosity is radically dropping already, it makes perfect sense that such superstitions would be mostly extinct by the 24th century.

Is this supposed to be a slight against those who are religious?

 

[Longinus]

And religion is already said to persist in both ENT and TOS so it's ludicrous to believe that spirituality or even organized religion will be all but extinct on both Earth and in the wider Federation just 100 years after Kirk. Religion - whether or not somebody likes or agrees with it - has been ingrained into human genetic makeup for millennia if not longer and just a couple of hundred years of warp drive and cures for most diseases isn't going to change that.

Couple of decades of good living standards and proper education seems to already be getting rid of religion pretty effectively. Americans just don't get how anomalously religious their country is for the western world.

 

[DarthPipes]

I did enjoy the Riker reunion. I would have more so if everyone didn't absolutely require a tragedy to be included in the story.

Elnor knows Hugh for 5-10 minutes. In his death says he'll need an XB to activate the teleporter. Wouldn't Elnor's thought be, "What is an XB?" Now supposedly untracked he goes and finds a Fenris Ranger beacon. WEIRD.

1000% yes on the first one. It was tragedy for the sake of drama. Nothing more. Shoehorning it into the main plot was contrived as hell.

In regards to what was going on on the Borg Cube, yeah, it was poorly plotted and planned out.

 

[Racefuel]

Having a room for ceremonies such as weddings does not imply religion, nor does participating traditional ceremonies. Besides, I was specifically talking about 24th century. Cassidy's reference to a priest is a pretty clear reference to religion, I grant you that. It is part of DS9 trying to ruin the setting of TNG. Regardless, there being one 24th century human whose father might have been religious doesn't change the big picture. Superstitions are mostly gone and that's how it should be.

That's your perspective, and you're entirely welcome to it, I'm not going to try to force you to think a certain way.

I do think, perhaps, you should examine your inherent bias and determine if you're projecting your personal beliefs onto a topic and seeing only what you want to see rather than what is actually being presented.

 

[Yistaan]

Is this supposed to be a slight against those who are religious?

I personally feel religion has been very harmful to my life, but here isn't the proper place to discuss that. However, I checked my entire post and I don't think I said anything bad about religious people (below). Unless you were talking to someone else? (Your post was right under mine).

Not entirely sure how religion in Trek came into all this, but per @Racefuel I'm missing a few posts so I'll comment as best I can.

I strongly suspect that with time travel, a lot of the religious figures may have been studied in person by Federation time travelers doing research and found to not be supernatural. In which case, religion would be affected. I think there may still be belief in an afterlife due to near death experiences, but even Voyager tackled that by having an alien create a fake near death experience for Janeway. Admittedly that doesn't mean all near death experiences are aliens, so religions might be reconfigured around those instead of ancient figures who time travelers may have found to be more ordinary than holy books described.

 

[Longinus]

Is this supposed to be a slight against those who are religious?

Why would it be? How is religion not a superstition by definition?

 

[Greg Cox]

'Because Gene decided it is like that' is a reason for most things in Star Trek. Most 24th century people being atheists is part of the setting, like it or not, and I really don't want it to be changed.

On the other hand, I'm a lifelong atheist myself, but I'll concede that we saw a chapel on the Enterprise as far back as "Balance of Terror." So Roddenberry was apparently okay with that then.

That being said, we've seen no indication that Soji is particularly religious, so I agree there's no reason to expect her to worry about her afterlife or whatever.

 

[fireproof78]

Couple of decades of good living standards and proper education seems to already be getting rid of religion pretty effectively. Americans just don't get how anomalously religious their country is for the western world.

This American understands it just fine and is OK with being an anomaly.

 

[Yistaan]

On the other hand, I'm a lifelong atheist myself, but I'll concede that we saw a chapel on the Enterprise as far back as "Balance of Terror." So Roddenberry was apparently okay with that then.

That being said, we've seen no indication that Soji is particularly religious, so I'll agree there's no reason to expect her to worry about her afterlife or whatever.

I guess I'm influenced by the game Final Fantasy 9 where the villain, upon finding out he's a construct and he has no idea what happens after he dies (other than he ceases to exist), has an existential breakdown and goes on a rampage.

Is this how Soji becomes the destroyer? :O

 

[Racefuel]

Couple of decades of good living standards and proper education seems to already be getting rid of religion pretty effectively. Americans just don't get how anomalously religious their country is for the western world.

Again, I'll invite you to examine your preconceived notions and inherent bigotry that you believe that only the poorly educated and people suffering from a low standard of living are religious.

 

[Greg Cox]

Just to be puckish, isn't "Because Roddenberry said so" kinda a religious attitude, and a fundamentalist one at that?

Star Trek is not a religion and Roddenberry is not the Pope or a prophet, let alone infallible.

 

[fireproof78]

Just to be puckish, isn't "Because Roddenberry said so" kinda a religious attitude, and a fundamentalist one at that?

Star Trek is not a religion and Roddenberry is not the Pope or a prophet, let alone infallible.

Quite right. Each person should be able to make up their own mind about things.

 

[AlanC9]

Having a room for ceremonies such as weddings does not imply religion, nor does participating traditional ceremonies. Besides, I was specifically talking about 24th century. Cassidy's reference to a priest is a pretty clear reference to religion, I grant you that. It is part of DS9 trying to ruin the setting of TNG. Regardless, there being one 24th century human whose father might have been religious doesn't change the big picture. Superstitions are mostly gone and that's how it should be.

Is "ruin" really what you're going for there? It sounds a bit extreme.

 

[eschaton]

IIRC Chabon was asked awhile back if he would have Jews in Star Trek, and his response was basically "Human religion is gone among in Roddenberry's world. There are no Jews, Muslims, or Christians. That's just the way the setting works."

 

[Longinus]

Again, I'll invite you to examine your preconceived notions and inherent bigotry that you believe that only the poorly educated and people suffering from a low standard of living are religious.

I try to answer politely, despite you accusing me of bigotry. My statement is based on observable evidence. Religiosity drops inc countries with good education and living standards. This is a fact. In the Europe religiosity has been steadily declining for decades.

 

[Racefuel]

Just to be puckish, isn't "Because Roddenberry said so" kinda a religious attitude, and a fundamentalist one at that?

Star Trek is not a religion and Roddenberry is not the Pope or a prophet, let alone infallible.

The beauty of Star Trek has been that (nearly) everyone can find something in it to identify with and be able to connect with. That was what has always been intended.

Where things get off track is when you have people who wish to claim hegemony across *all* of Star Trek to the exclusion of everyone else because they want to have their personal beliefs justified and reinforced to the exclusion of everyone else and show intolerance towards anyone who says or wishes otherwise.

 

[Tuskin38]

Sorry if it was mentioned earlier..but did anyone notice that the picture of Picard holding baby Thad was in the observation lounge of the E-E?

Yes.

It is part of DS9 trying to ruin the setting of TNG

DS9 was trying to do no such thing.