Spoilers Episode 7 "Nepenthe"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by NCC-73515, Feb 28, 2020.

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Rate 1x07 Nepenthe

  1. 10 - Wild Beard Riker

    108 vote(s)
    36.9%
  2. 9

    93 vote(s)
    31.7%
  3. 8

    53 vote(s)
    18.1%
  4. 7

    21 vote(s)
    7.2%
  5. 6

    7 vote(s)
    2.4%
  6. 5 - Full Beard Riker

    2 vote(s)
    0.7%
  7. 4

    4 vote(s)
    1.4%
  8. 3

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  9. 2

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  10. 1 - Season 1 Riker

    3 vote(s)
    1.0%
  1. urbandk

    urbandk Commodore Commodore

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    My thoughts exactly :techman:
     
  2. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Them Trek writers love to reference anything and everything in existing lore :techman:
     
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  3. Gonzo

    Gonzo Commodore Commodore

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    I did wonder at the time if Thad was really dead and if so will we see Q do something about it at some point.

    They would have to keep him well hidden, Soji's home would have the technology to save him.
     
  4. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Last week Elnor and Hugh are standing side by side, ready to face the Romulans. This week, Elnor has inexplicably disappeared, Hugh is captured and his XB's are put to death right in front of him. Elnor then pops up in the next scene...what the hell happened in-between? Very poorly done.
     
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  5. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bathroom break. ;)
     
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  6. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Riker doesn't remember that though. That's why him naming his son Thad, in reference to an episode he doesn't remember, is jarring. Unless Janeway told Riker about it when she got back.
     
  7. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My guess is they separated, and Hugh believed if he just acted like nothing at all untoward had happened they would have just gotten away with getting Picard and Soji out of there.
     
  8. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or he revered his ancestor that much.
     
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  9. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Skipped about 20 pages again so forgive me.

    This one gets a 8 from me, and hell as everyone knows I'm anything BUT a big TNG fan, (I did ultimately like a lot of the show, but for me it hasn't aged well at all.) Why?

    This was the first TNG episode that (for me) showed that yes, Riker and Co. ARE real Humans, and not the Utopian mannequins they often came across as in many an episode of the 1987-1994 TNG series...FINALLY!

    Liked:
    - The actress playing Kestrel. It's the first time I've seen a 'child' character written really well in Trek, period; and I read up thread that the actress is only 13, but she did one hell of a job for her age here. To bad we probably won't see her again.

    - Liked that for THE FIRST TIME (and no I'm not kidding) they showed that Deanna Troi is a competent professional COUNSELOR. And no, that's not hyperbole. I LOVED how (in the same scene where she's artfully dressing down Picard, who again DESERVED IT) they showed that she knows how to read a persons body language and mannerisms as well as their speech patterns to get an idea of how a [patient is dealing with things she's been trough. Berman and Braga on TNG seemed to often intimate that without her empathetic abilities, Troi could do sh*t as a Counselor; and outright had the character state as much in the TNG S4 episode, "The Loss". here the STP writers showed a fully functional counselor and really made Deanna a Human character, and that's something Berman and Braga FAILED at for 7 seasons and 4 films IMO. I honestly finally liked this character (and marina Sirtis portrayal) for the first %$#@! time. (oh, and someone upthread complained that she shouldn't have cut Riker off when he started the "I've know Picard for 25 years..." bit. IMO - yes, she should have and did, and because she was a real counselor and read Soji, Troi knew that the LAST thing Soji needed to hear was yet another person saying how 'noble and trustworthy' Picard is, and it wouldn't help her, or Picard. Soji had been lied to so many times recently, words were the LAST thing she'd believe. Picard would have to show Soji he was trustworthy by his actions; and Troi understood that here.)

    - LOVED what they did with the character of Will Riker. Again showed a real human side to the character (which I will at least say some 1987-1994 writers occasionally managed as well); but for me, it really worked here. I loved that he was pretty much able to deduce the whole situation from what little snippets Picard let pout; and I also loved when he deconstructed Picard and dressed Picard down as well in his own way. I got the impression that yes, Riker finally had his own experience at being a Starship Captain, and was very successful, etc; BUT, why he still admired Picard, he understood the flaws of Picard's old command style and laid them bare for Picard to see. So, yeah, it was nice to see that Riker had finally come into his own at some point; and wasn't just Picard's clone/shadow any longer.

    - This was also the first episode where I liked the Elnor character. he's learning about the world harshly; but responded well so far (IMO).


    Disliked:
    - Raffi. And this is entirely the writing staff's fault, not the actress, as she's just playing what's on the page, and what's on the page for her so far just plain sucks, (IMO). The character is shallow, flat, trope-ish, and quickly descending into a caricature.

    - Dr. Jurati. Again the fault of the writing staff, IMO. I found the character mildly annoying at first but she got REALLY annoying for me in the episode (and again, don't dislike the actress at all, just the character as written). I was applauding as I thought she was finally going tom put herself down and put the audience out of the misery of watching her - but no, she's just in a coma.

    At this point, I wish both these characters would just toss themselves out an airlock and be done with it.

    Sad About:
    - I was actually sorry they killed off Hugh; but again, I liked that they show characters are flawed and not always thinking actions through. IDK how/why Hugh believed the Romulans wouldn't start reprisals or just let him go back to what he was doing before with little fuss; but Hugh was always shown as somewhat naive and was never a soldier - and he paid for his actions, but it was all very 'in character'. Still sad to h=see him go. I also had zero issue with Elnor finding the Fennris Ranger summoning chit, as OF COURSE Hugh would have one; and I'm 100% certain Hugh was going to get it/use it as well, when he was leading Elnor back to the Chamber to finally take the Cube from the Romulans - so hey, Elnor managed to find it...

    Bottom line: If the characters of TNG had been portrayed as more actually Human (like they were in this one episode); this old TOS fan (TOS is STILL #1 dammit! ;)) might have liked TNG more.

    So, again, an 8 (And I think it's the highest I've rated an STP episode to date.) YMMV. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
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  10. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I realize that there have been relatively good records for centuries longer in the Trekverse. Nonetheless, relatively few of us can trace back our own ancestors 500+ years. My own efforts to figure out my family tree basically peter out about 200 years or so before my birth.
     
  11. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Good point. How do the descendants of those families think of themselves now?
     
  12. bookworm8571

    bookworm8571 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Given human nature (and humanoid), I still don’t buy it. Even in societies with declining rates of traditional religious adherence, there is still a fairly high rate of belief in a deity or of spiritual practice and New Age type beliefs. Religion would not have vanished in Picard’s time, though it might not look like it does now. I also doubt that there is only one religion or viewpoint on Vulcan, Romulus, Kronos, etc.
     
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  13. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. Her character is just ripping cliches out of the nuBSG bible. I think her best scenes this season have been the quieter ones with Raffi. Most of the time her character is just lost in a sea of cliches with the writers desperately trying to be edgy.
     
  14. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, but how many of us are William T. Riker, Master of the Chairs?
     
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  15. Racefuel

    Racefuel Captain Captain

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    TNG/DS9/Voyager make it very clear there are Klingons who likewise do not believe in Sto'vo'kor (sp?) and whatever the Klingon hell we glimpsed in Voyager was called that I forget.

    Worfs religious beliefs were challenged in TNG with the "clone Kahless" episode yet he still maintained Klingon religious practices, like the DS9 episode where he, Martok and Quark (lol) go on the dangerous mission to ensure that Jadiza would be permitted entrance to the afterlife.
     
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  16. bookworm8571

    bookworm8571 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Vulcan seems to have a pretty well-developed set of traditional rites and cultural practices that look an awful lot like a religion to me. Tuvok’s wife “prayed” at the temple for his safe return. Nothing was said about her trying to guide him home telepathically, though that might be part of her religious practice or asking a deity and the priests to help her do so. The “katra” that exists after death is essentially a soul. I think it may be a bit like Chinese or Asian practice — the philosophy of Surak blended with ancient folk religion and traditions that included gods and belief in an afterlife and sometimes contradict one another. Not every Vulcan would follow the same tradition or believe in it in the same way. Maybe the writers modeled Vulcan in part off Asian philosophy. I would assume the Vulcan pantheon was similar to the Romulan since the Romulans left Vulcan after the time of Surak.
     
  17. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Though it should be noted that traditional Klingon religion is atheistic, since it's canonical in Klingon religion that the first Klingon and his mate killed the gods.
     
  18. Racefuel

    Racefuel Captain Captain

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    A very interesting facet to it, yes.

    Yet themselves assumed a god-like stature...

    Hm
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  19. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It probably would not completely vanish, but I can easily imagine that it would be a super marginal phenomenon. But it is not like they have though polices; anyone can believe what they want. But Star Trek and TNG in particular seems to depict a society which is open minded, but ultimately trusts logic, empiricism and the scientific principle. And also includes just saying 'we don't know that yet' about certain things instead of inventing fantasies. It is a bit weird, because in Star Trek there definitely exist certain things we might consider 'supernatural.' Aliens have bizarre powers and there are beings that by any reasonable definition are indeed gods. But these things are no treated with any sort of special reverence, they are things that are part of the universe, and they can be studied and understood like everything else. (Sisko's attitude towards the Wormhole Aliens is somewhat an exception though.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  20. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The 'telepathic guiding' thing is from Discovery. I think the depiction of the Vulcan culture is a bit inconsistent, but I really wouldn't interpret it as a religion in traditional sense. Vulcans are telepathic, they literally have 'magic powers.' This may seem mystical and weird to humans, but to them it probably isn't. It is like how to a species without hearing us humans being able to communicate via speech would seem magical, and our fascination with music would seem like incomprehensible mysticism.. Vulcan monks and priests are just people who are mastering the practice and science related to their telepathic abilities. But this is the part that I referred to in my last posts. Things get a bit muddy in a setting where 'gods' and 'magic powers' demonstrably exist and can be scientifically studied.