Donny's Refit Enterprise Interiors (Version 2.0)

[aridas sofia]

“The problem with the Enterprise is that it is a "boatload of children" not that it isn't a real starship anymore.”

Really? Wouldn’t the plan to decommission her indicate otherwise? It has always seemed to me that her duty as a training vessel was in keeping with her being an old ship ready for retirement. Again, this is in keeping with Enterprise reflecting the way Kirk feels about himself. Can you point me to the McCoy line about it being refit to go back into space?

 

[Donny]

Donny do you plan to make that David Kimble torpedo room from his cutaway, or will this Klingon one stand in for TMP as well?

Also is there any kind of TMP analog to this TWOK “Spock death chamber”?

Well the David Kimble cutaway shows the torpedo launch tubes traveling through the top of the N deck engineering shaft (the deck immediately above Main Engineering, which is the deck that Kirk entered the set before riding a lift down below). It was obvious via these scenes that torpedo tubes did not run through the top of this deck. Therefore, I'm going with what's more widely accepted, the TWOK torpedo bay set, situated on M Deck. I might toy around with some subtle changes in detail here and there...maybe more austere with less decals and such. But it will pretty much be the same. Unless inspiration for a different configuration strikes (and we can assume that the torpedo launch system was swapped out between the two films?)

Regarding your second question, I don't think there was any kind of TMP analog to the reactor room.

 

[Donny]

Btw, while I get to work on the TWOK computer consoles, here's a nice shot from the foyer, with a better lit view of the foyer console, and a nice view of the dilithium reactor across the room:

 

[aridas sofia]

Well the David Kimble cutaway shows the torpedo launch tubes traveling through the top of the N deck engineering shaft (the deck immediately above Main Engineering, which is the deck that Kirk entered the set before riding a lift down below). It was obvious via these scenes that torpedo tubes did not run through the top of this deck. Therefore, I'm going with what's more widely accepted, the TWOK torpedo bay set, situated on M Deck. I might toy around with some subtle changes in detail here and there...maybe more austere with less decals and such. But it will pretty much be the same.

There are certainly other places on this particular set (and others from TMP) that do not make sense. It is at least arguable that in the case of the missing Kimble torpedo tubes that they aren’t there to avoid a confusing background for Kirk’s dramatic entry. I certainly hoped that for the first time, we’d get to see them.

The biggest problem with the TWOK torpedo room is that it is the Klingon bridge with those very recognizable shock absorbers. On TOS that kind of thing was forgivable. But in a feature film? And in the same movie with the Klingon ship? Are you sure you want to do that?

 

[Nightowl1701]

Really? Wouldn’t the plan to decommission her indicate otherwise? It has always seemed to me that her duty as a training vessel was in keeping with her being an old ship ready for retirement. Again, this is in keeping with Enterprise reflecting the way Kirk feels about himself. Can you point me to the McCoy line about it being refit to go back into space?

“Admiral, wouldn't it be easier to just put an experienced crew back on the ship?”

The implication being that the Enterprise is being used as a training ship at Kirk/Spock’s behest, and could be put back in active service if so desired (just without Kirk).

 

[Tallguy]

“The problem with the Enterprise is that it is a "boatload of children" not that it isn't a real starship anymore.”

Really? Wouldn’t the plan to decommission her indicate otherwise? It has always seemed to me that her duty as a training vessel was in keeping with her being an old ship ready for retirement. Again, this is in keeping with Enterprise reflecting the way Kirk feels about himself. Can you point me to the McCoy line about it being refit to go back into space?

“Admiral, wouldn't it be easier to just put an experienced crew back on the ship?”

Right. Not that that makes any sense either. The movies have a tendency to treat a "crew" as a whole unit. If Kirk retires then EVERYBODY retires. You take out one crew of five hundred people and let the ship sit there while you train up another crew of 500 people.

Also just as I don't give any weight to arguments about how TOS was meant to work based on TNG or (heaven forfend) ENT I'm not getting into the mind set of Meyer and company on ST2 based on what happened in ST3. And even if I were (which I'm not) she was being decommissioned after the Reliant kicked the snot out of her.

The assumption (I think) is that the Enterprise is a fully functional ship of the line with a green crew. Peter Preston (Engineer's mate, SIR) certainly thought so. And if you don't then you're as blind as a tiberian bat!

 

[aridas sofia]

Right. Not that that makes any sense either. The movies have a tendency to treat a "crew" as a whole unit. If Kirk retires then EVERYBODY retires. You take out one crew of five hundred people and let the ship sit there while you train up another crew of 500 people.

Also just as I don't give any weight to arguments about how TOS was meant to work based on TNG or (heaven forfend) ENT I'm not getting into the mind set of Meyer and company on ST2 based on what happened in ST3. And even if I were (which I'm not) she was being decommissioned after the Reliant kicked the snot out of her.

The assumption (I think) is that the Enterprise is a fully functional ship of the line with a green crew. Peter Preston (Engineer's mate, SIR) certainly thought so. And if you don't then you're as blind as a tiberian bat!

Given what you wrote about retcons, this makes no difference. But iirc Morrow says Enterprise is being decommissioned because of her age. I suspect that was Bennett’s way of bringing the point of Kirk feeling decommissioned because of his age, forward into the next movie.

In any event, this is only pertinent to Donny’s work in that an old ship has plenty of room for lots of refitting, allowing for a breadth of interpretation from TMP to TWoK.

But man oh man, not that it means anything, I do hate that TWoK torpedo room. I wish it was not retconned into the TMP era.

 

[Tallguy]

Given what you wrote about retcons, this makes no difference. But iirc Morrow says Enterprise is being decommissioned because of her age. I suspect that was Bennett’s way of bringing the point of Kirk feeling decommissioned because of his age, forward into the next movie.

Well, Morrow also says that the Enterprise is 20 years old. So he clearly joins the long line of insane Starfleet Admirals.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

On the other hand, this is a movie where photon torpedoes were loaded manually. A generous interpretation is that, since the Enterprise is now a cadet vessel, it lacks automation so that the cadets can be trained to do the various tasks they might have to do manually in emergencies. Although if that's the case, Scotty really did pull off a miracle by converting the ship to full automation by the next movie.

We all know the only reason that set exists is because Meyer wanted to do a riff on the Age of Sail and crewmen loading cannons.

In Nicholas Meyer's book A View From The Bridge, there's a part where he questions a fan about the "loading the cannons" shot, as Meyer was very aware of what an indulgence it was. The fan says that he never questioned it, as obviously the automatic systems were down because of Khan's attack, so they had to remove the plates manually. Works for me.

Carol contacts him and accuses him of taking Genesis from her. She doesn't say there's an enemy taking it, she claims Starfleet is taking it and accuses Kirk of giving the order.

She doesn't directly accuse Kirk. She's questioning what she just heard from Chekov and asking Kirk for accurate info. Carol's line is "Jim, did you give the order?" That's a ways off from accusing him.

I've stopped caring too much about how things actually work. It's sci-fi, it's a movie from the 80s, and they did a damn good job despite some hiccups here and there. What matters to me is that I enjoy indulging in the film, warts and all. I portray the dilithium reactor room because I like the way it looks and it's a vital part to the TWOK set. And besides, I'm doing a TMP version (sans reactor room) as well, to please those that take issue with the TWOK design choices (and my own desire to have dedicated TMP versions of all the sets).

Hear, hear! As long as the tech stuff makes sense in the broad strokes and helps the story work dramatically (which it absolutely does in TWOK), I don't sweat the details.

I understand there are those of us that like to debate this stuff end to end, and that's fine. I just prefer to take in the beauty of the retro aesthetics and then create replicas for you people to drool over.

And a wonderful job you've been doing of it too, Donny!

When it does make sense, great! When it makes dramatic sense too, awesome! When it looks cool, yippee! When it doesn't make sense, that's too bad! When it doesn't make sense but still looks cool, I can live with that!

Exactly my feelings. Me too.

 

[Maurice]

CAROL: I will not let them have Genesis without proper authorization.
UHURA: Transmission jammed at the source.

Kirk does not take this anywhere seriously enough. I mean, let's do a bit of word substitution...

OPPENHEIMER: I will not let them have the Manhattan Project without proper authorization.
OPERATOR: Call cut off at the source.

The only appropriate response is to head for Regula I at ludicrous speed and stop for NOTHING. "Hi Reliant. No time to chat! Good luck with your chambers coil!" WHOOSH!

 

[Henoch]

The only appropriate response is to head for Regula I at ludicrous speed and stop for NOTHING. "Hi Reliant. No time to chat! Good luck with your chambers coil!" WHOOSH!

I assume Kirk is aware that Reliant was assigned to the Genesis Project, so, of course, he will stop and talk to the Captain of the Reliant to figure out what the hell is going on around here.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I assume Kirk is aware that Reliant was assigned to the Genesis Project, so, of course, he will stop and talk to the Captain of the Reliant to figure out what the hell is going on around here.

Logical. Flawlessly logical.

That could also explain why Kirk disregarded the regulations regarding shields being raised. Saavik wasn't aware about Genesis and the Reliant's relation to it, so to her it seems like a flagrant offense.

 

[Maurice]

Nah. There's no sense of urgency there. No "Hey, Reliant is assigned to this project, maybe they know what's up." And even if that were the case, they have FTL comms. You can have this conversation as you're past them at warp 8.

 

[FormerLurker]

Nah. There's no sense of urgency there. No "Hey, Reliant is assigned to this project, maybe they know what's up." And even if that were the case, they have FTL comms. You can have this conversation as you're past them at warp 8.

Except Reliant is coming to them, far from her assigned duties. If there's a problem at Regula/with Genesis, they'll know what's going on. Until it goes very, very wrong.

 

[Maurice]

Except Reliant is coming to them, far from her assigned duties. If there's a problem at Regula/with Genesis, they'll know what's going on. Until it goes very, very wrong.

And how does Kirk know this? Oh, sure, when Kirk calls Starfleet about Carol and gets assigned to go look into it he probably gets some info* but the movie does not make this clear, and a short throwaway line would have clarified it. As in one can suppose all this but it's not made explicit. The audience has no way of knowing this might be the case.

*And, really what logically shoulda happened is since Reliant is assigned to Genesis then when Kirk reports to Starfleet they oughta have said, "Hey, this is a super-important project, so zip over that way right now. Meanwhile, we'll ring up Reliant and see if they know what's shaking or are in the area." After which they should have called back going, "We're just getting Reliant's voicemail, so something must be wrong" or "Terrell says everything was peachy last time he Facetimed with Dr. Marcus, but says he'll rendezvous with you to check it out," or something.

 

[Christopher]

And, really what logically shoulda happened...

What logically should've happened is that the explosion of Ceti Alpha VI would've been picked up by FTL telescopes as soon as it happened 15 years earlier -- or at least that Reliant should've detected the light from it as soon as it came within 15 light-years of Ceti Alpha. Destroying an Earth-sized planet would take an amount of energy equivalent to Sol's entire output for a week, so it would be an event that would outshine the star itself. Failing that, what logically should've happened is that the Reliant should've immediately recognized that one of the previously charted planets in the system was absent and replaced by a ring of debris, and that the planet they were nearing did not match all 6 of the orbital parameters recorded for Ceti Alpha VI.

What logically should've happened long before then is that the recovery of the Botany Bay and its passengers would've been made public and celebrated as one of the greatest historical finds of the century. What logically should've happened is that the Federation should've turned Ceti Alpha V into an official penal colony and monitored the Augments' progress closely while a gaggle of historians descended on the planet to interview them about the Eugenics Wars and other aspects of 20th-century history that had been lost in the conflict.

What logically should've happened when the Genesis Torpedo detonated in the middle of a nebula is that it should've done nothing because it was programmed to reconfigure the surface of an existing planet, not to build an entire new planet (and star?) out of diffuse gases. At most, it might've managed to create some microbes and algae that would quickly die in the void of space.

The Wrath of Khan is not a logical movie on any level.

 

[Maurice]

What logically should've happened is that the explosion of Ceti Alpha VI would've been picked up by FTL telescopes as soon as it happened 15 years earlier -- or at least that Reliant should've detected the light from it as soon as it came within 15 light-years of Ceti Alpha. Destroying an Earth-sized planet would take an amount of energy equivalent to Sol's entire output for a week, so it would be an event that would outshine the star itself. Failing that, what logically should've happened is that the Reliant should've immediately recognized that one of the previously charted planets in the system was absent and replaced by a ring of debris, and that the planet they were nearing did not match all 6 of the orbital parameters recorded for Ceti Alpha VI.

What logically should've happened long before then is that the recovery of the Botany Bay and its passengers would've been made public and celebrated as one of the greatest historical finds of the century. What logically should've happened is that the Federation should've turned Ceti Alpha V into an official penal colony and monitored the Augments' progress closely while a gaggle of historians descended on the planet to interview them about the Eugenics Wars and other aspects of 20th-century history that had been lost in the conflict.

What logically should've happened when the Genesis Torpedo detonated in the middle of a nebula is that it should've done nothing because it was programmed to reconfigure the surface of an existing planet, not to build an entire new planet (and star?) out of diffuse gases. At most, it might've managed to create some microbes and algae that would quickly die in the void of space.

The Wrath of Khan is not a logical movie on any level.

Exactly why rationalizing all this stuff is pointless. The movie is dumb as a box of rocks, and it requires the characters to be play stupid for it to work.

 

[Donny]

Tonight I finished up one of the computer banks we see in the TWOK engineering set. This one is my favorite of the two.



We see it in the engineering set:



On the Regula I station:


And in "The Last Starfighter":


Has anyone spotted this particular movie prop in any other films or TV? It was rented from Modern Props, which sadly announced it's closing down soon :-(

 

[FcukTWOK]

Has anyone spotted this particular movie prop in any other films or TV?

Airplane II: The Sequel was drowning in them, including the computer banks you modeled (they were aboard the shuttle, IIRC).

 

[cardinal biggles]

I haven't spotted that one, but the other console was a ubiquitous fixture inside the FLAG Semi on Knight Rider. During the first season, it looked as it did in TWOK, but for the second (and remaining seasons) it was finished in a blonde wood veneer to match the rest of the interior.