I have a feeling there aren't very many works of fiction in history that would be immune to the "Mary Sue" criticism these days by those disposed to use it. Kinda tired of seeing it everywhere, no offense.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candor"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
We don't get a decent moneyshot of what's on the bottom of the Bird of Prey. It's probably the remains of a 150 year old paint job that the current owner doesn't really care about.
There is a Moral Mary Sue, and Picard in this show defines it.
It's not just that he wasnt ENTIRELY responsible for the decision to stop the rescue mission, it is that they present him as having ZERO responsibility for it. He argued against it. Staked his career on it. And they still said no. They did. Not him. And yes, as I have said they keep doing this in every episode.
They try to insert things that make it seem like there is something he needs to redeem himself for. But they are transparently false. So yes he said stupid nonsense like "the perfect being the enemy of the good", but there is no actual occasion where he did that.
It is just a line they give him to say, to make it seem like there is a personally redemptive story here. But Starfleet didnt give him an imperfect Fleet, and he refused. It is that there would be NO fleet and NO ships. They are cutting the Romulans loose, and Clancy says 14 years later that she still thinks that was the right call. Period. Request denied. Not his fault.
From what I could see it does look very similar to what was painted on the bottoms of the TOS Romulan Bird-of-Preys. I could make out the red coloration of bird feathers and a body.
Eh, yes and no. I get where you're coming from, but the show isn't even really doing that.
There aren't any actual "consequences" except that he's gotten a talking to from a couple of people. But he needed Raffi's help and she gave it. He needed the help of the Romulan warrior nuns and he got it. They complained slightly, but that was it.
It's also weird that the show is just coming at everything sideways. Here's a massive backstory with galaxy-shattering consequences that not only resulted in the death of countless people but also shattered Picard....and yet the show isn't actually dealing with any of those issues in any real way. It's about something else entirely.
What, he's not taking it to vintage spaceship shows on weekends?
Oh, what do they call it these days? Patina? Hipsters love patina
I was into referencing TOS ship paint schemes before it was cool. [*Vapes snakeweed*]
it still isn't
Arguably, they are trying something that hasn't really been done with a mainstream science-fiction show too much, if ever. I think the dreams in the first couple episodes and the anger during the interview with the reporter are meant to inform us how deep that stuff runs emotionally for him but it's taken a bit of backseat now.
The show has implied Picard was, "Fulfill all my promises to the Romulans or I resign." He wouldn't be saying the things he does if he didn't recognize they had some validity to him as a person. Since we haven't gotten to see his resignation from Star Fleet as it happened, we are left with how people see it 15 years on and how they remember it.
And sure, maybe Starfleet said "no, you get no ships." Did he try to drum up help from anyone else? No. He went home and refused to face the consequences of being the face of a failed mission. Running away, deciding he wouldn't even try to save anyone else if it wasn't at the command of a Starfleet mission is a decision he made that he has recognized was a failure on his part to live up to his own principles. And he's right.
I wish you could sell a house that way
"Hey man the house inspector said that could maybe be asbestos insulation there in the attic"
"....Well.....yeah, but that's what makes it authentic! There's that old house vibe you just don't get when you take out the asbestos. Let's go burn a J"
"Hey man the house inspector said that could maybe be asbestos insulation there in the attic"
"....Well.....yeah, but that's what makes it authentic! There's that old house vibe you just don't get when you take out the asbestos. Let's go burn a J"
Well we never saw every BOP. Maybe some of them were not painted that way. Im ok with tons of mothballed Romulan ships being around, since they would have done that to get as many people out of the "blast zone" as possible. Some of apparently found their way into the wrong hands in the 14 years since then.
Seven!Although it was a shame seeing Jeri Ryan's name in the opening credits as it spoiled the surprise. It was still fun seeing her pop up at the end and be the one fighting Picard.
Looks like I'm one of the luckier guys on this board. I don't actually ever watch the credits anymore; while they're playing I do something else in another browser tab until they're over. So I went unspoiled.
I just hummed along to the theme music as I went out to get some drinks from the fridge, so I was lucky to avoid it too. So it was a genuine surprise for me and I jumped with glee when she appeared in the transporter beam.
Altered Carbon works on that kind of angle. Doctor Who deals with the Time War in a similar manner. Travelers also.
As I said, he could have gone to the Cantina, and hired Han and Chewbacca to ferry 50 ppl at a time. Drop in the bucket compared to 900 million. But that's a weak basis for a redemption story since he had no obligation to do that. They dont go into any other detail about it. Clancy says cutting them loose was the right call. Did he go to Chancellor Martok and ask the Klingons to save the Romulans? IDK.
But this premises his "redemption" on not making it his lifes mission as a civilian to save every Romulan he could, no matter how few. To me that's weak grounds for a redemption story since it is based not on his responsibility for the problems, but rather on his failure to be a living Saint who devotes every hour of his life to saving people. Thats a failure to live up to Sainthood, not a moral failure in need of redemption.
Other than for the pure joy of seeing the Romulans humiliated, why would the Klingons of all species help Picard save the Romulans?
How did Picard get away with chewing out Elnor for the Senator's death, when he basically provoked the whole incident?
Exactly. If anything, they would say "F the Romulans. They were happy to see the Jem Hadar kill us all. They have no honor anyway. Let them die".....Or words to that effect.
