Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x03 - "The End is the Beginning"

[Crewman6]

Wrong. It's called a "dishonorable discharge".

The best way for this to happen is to get "Article 15'd". Then, there is the court-martial option if the soldier wants to challenge the A15, the results of which may end in a DD if the charge is severe and prosecutory evidence is compelling enough.

There used to be the good old Section 8 (made famous by Klinger in M*A*S*H), which is now no longer practiced, for obvious reasons.

Here is a complete list of all discharge types - some of them on dishonorable grounds.

Please do a little basic research before making completely ignorant broad-band claims about things you know not what.

Thank you, yes. I know there is such a thing as a dishonorable discharge (though you wouldn't know it from reading my other posts!) Didn't mean to imply that it was literally impossible to be fired from the military, sorry for the confusion.

My point was nothing Raffi did remotely rises to the level of that.

"Friends with officer who resigned" isn't on your list.

 

[Crewman6]

I'm starting to get the impression that you're one of those guys who thinks everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

I would suggest that almost anyone who disagrees with anyone on this BBS does so because they think the other person is wrong.

 

[Crewman6]

People can be transferred etc. and say you're not "fired" but everyone knows what it really means. For all we know Starfleet wrote out Raffi's honorable discharge in the coziest words possible, but Raffi called it out for what it was and says "You fired me".

Possibly. But, again, you're making assumptions that may nor may not directly contradict what was seen onscreen or, at worst, you're filling in gaps for what wasn't seen on screen.

Either way, the problem still rests with the "Picard" writers.

 

[DaveyNY]

Not just friends with Picard.
It seems that Raffi may have also been the principle actor in the entire setup of the Rescue Effort.
It failed spectacularly and somebody's head had to roll.

Scapegoat thy name be Raffi.

If I were her I'd assume the worst as well.

 

[Crewman6]

That is her interpretation of events. A drug addict who is mad at someone from her past.

her being a "drug addict" is not in the text, just because she's casually smoking some 24th century weed. Even if the scene was meant to imply she's an addict NOW, nothing about that is relevant to what she was like 15 years ago. (and, no, Michelle Hurd interviews don't count.)

 

[Yistaan]

Possibly. But, again, you're making assumptions that may nor may not directly contradict what was seen onscreen or, at worst, you're filling in gaps for what wasn't seen on screen.

Either way, the problem still rests with the "Picard" writers.

Are the details of Raffi's departure that necessary they need to be spelled out word for word? That's like saying the Lord of the Rings is a terrible novel and Tolkien a terrible author because he didn't explain why Gandalf didn't fly the Ring to Mordor on an eagle. (Explanations about fear of flying Nazgul are also just fan theories).

That's far more relevant to the plot of LOTR than the details of Raffi's departure from Starfleet, yet LOTR is one of the greatest novels of all time.

 

[Crewman6]

I think by "getting fired," Raffi was simply reassigned from the Romulan evacuation project--but it was something that she had invested a lot into, and being pulled from it sent her on a downward spiral that ended with her either quitting or being discharged from the fleet.

I also tend to think that Raffi has her own demons that predate the attack on Mars. Maybe she was able to quiet them while working with Picard, but they resurfaced after they parted ways maybe.

All of this would be great....if it was actually in the episode and not just post-facto speculation without any real evidence.

 

[Yistaan]

All of this would be great....if it was actually in the episode and not just post-facto speculation without any real evidence.

Gandalf and Frodo not flying the Ring to Mordor due to fear of flying Nazgul would be great if it were actually in the novel and not just post-facto speculation without any real evidence.

 

[Vger23]

I've noticed this forum is a lot more... intense... than even theforce.net Star Wars forums (of which I've been a member for 15 years). Considering Star Wars fans' often overreaching passion has reached media attention even, that's saying a lot.

It only takes one person losing their minds about something stupid.

I would suggest that almost anyone who disagrees with anyone on this BBS does so because they think the other person is wrong.

Fair point.

Fortunately most others have the communication skills and tact to present counter-arguments with more teeth than an insecure declaration of how terrible someone else's opinion or argument is though. That approach just makes you look like a weak, angry bully.

And I'm sure that's not who you or how you want to come off

Some feedback for you. For whatever it's worth!

 

[Nyotarules]

How about the 21st Century US government?
Why do people hate this idea so much? I get that real life isn't like that and the dramatic value but is it such a horrible concept? At one point, I thought that idealism was part of Trek, it wasn't just nacelles and phasers.

Aiming to be better as humans is part of Trek, we can aim to better humans that sees money/financial transaction as a tool, a means to an end. The 'no money' thing is a TNG concept from one movie. Picard is probably French aristocracy/olde money, he can afford the 'we don't need money' lifestyle, as Raffi so aptly pointed out

More like she's forcing herself to live in caravan.

Starfleet denied her pension, cos money does not exist lol

There always was poverty in Trek, they just redefined poverty by saying "Is Raffi starving? She has a replicator right? She has a home even if its trailer sized? There, she's not poor."

The Enterprise crew owes Mark Twain, Lily, and all the people they boasted about eradicating poverty to an apology.

And Mudds women, those poor, pretty ladies looking for well off husbands in TOS, all they needed was a decent replicator

Would using contemporary slang in a show set on 18th century make it fell more 'real' to you as well? Personally I want portrayal of future to be a bit more than rayguns and rubberhead aliens; you should at least try to hint that it is a different time via speech, customs and values. Making the future to be like today makes it less real to me, not more.

To do that they will resort to techbabble, have you watched Hollywood movies set in the past, they use the contemporary language of the audience. And considering its a futuure where humans live and work with aliens seems very futuristic. Now if Raffi or any other human character has a transgendered lover somewhere played by a transgendered actor and no one in the show bats an eye, then yeah that will be very futuristic

And to me, canon is something that exists in the collective imagination of the fans, not in a company’s IP rights.

Fans are diverse in thought, I would not use that as a guide at all

 

[picardjean-luc]

I strongly agree. They're both great characters and clearly quite talented. Those two could easily watch Picard's back for the duration of the mission, and it would be helpful to have some Romulans along, in general, to provide Picard with some cultural insight along the way, of why things are and how to work around them. A lost opportunity there...

The Romulan swordsman Elnor is supposed to join the Picard crew in next week's episode. Rumors have it that

Spoiler

Elnor is Zhaban and Laris' son.

Hence Raffi is supposed to be Picard's advisor on Romulan politics and culture, while Elnor would protect him from any danger that comes Picard's way.

 

[BillJ]

her being a "drug addict" is not in the text, just because she's casually smoking some 24th century weed. Even if the scene was meant to imply she's an addict NOW, nothing about that is relevant to what she was like 15 years ago. (and, no, Michelle Hurd interviews don't count.)

But the conversation with Picard takes place in the present.

 

[Danny99]

Some thoughts for this episode:

The reintroduction of Hugh was well done. It wasn't a big "to-do" and came naturally from the story.

There was a line of Sisko's: "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." Raffi and Rios were expelled from that paradise for whatever and it is natural to see them suffering a kind of PTSD, turning to substance abuse. People were complaining that Raffi vaping was another one of those "Not My Trek" rallying calls for people, but if you follow this idea that they were exiled from paradise, it's not beyond reason.

I continue to dislike the Romulan subplot with Commodore Oh. They really robbed the Narek storyline of any intrigue. And the makeup on Tamlyn Tomita as Oh looks worse than most fans were at Comic-Con and who decided to put sunglasses on her. She looked so goofy.

I liked that Rios' EMH and holo-engineer had echoes of Robert Picardo and James Doohan in their acting and accent, in the latter's case.

We don't need another Starfleet is corrupt storyline. Section 31 was a misstep and Trek seems to think we want to keep going back to it.

Patrick Stewart of twenty years ago wanted to be an action star and here he is still doing it. Deep inside though, Picard is still Picard and not being changed.

Isa Briones is a good fit as the mysterious Soji, but again they've tied her to the dumb Narek plot and had her jump into bed with him very quickly and appear in her underwear a couple times. I'm hoping this storyline goes somewhere good because the actress deserves it.

I've never seen such a hefty Romulan before. He looked like he could've been out of a biker gang or something.

Please don't make Juratti into Tilly. Tilly has been a breakout character for Discovery, but the writers don't need to copy that formula. Alison Pill is a good actress that can find a different place for Juratti.

I hope we see more of Picard's Romulan housemates / bodyguards. They have been another one of the pleasant surprises in Picard.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Thank you, yes. I know there is such a thing as a dishonorable discharge (though you wouldn't know it from reading my other posts!) Didn't mean to imply that it was literally impossible to be fired from the military, sorry for the confusion.

My point was nothing Raffi did remotely rises to the level of that.

"Friends with officer who resigned" isn't on your list.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-not-happy-vindman-164652620.html
Here's an example of a military man losing his job for giving testimony under subpoena as well as his twin brother for um, reasons.

 

[DaveyNY]

The Romulan swordsman Elnor is supposed to join the Picard crew in next week's episode. Rumors have it that

Spoiler

Elnor is Zhaban and Laris' son.

Hence Raffi is supposed to be Picard's advisor on Romulan politics and culture, while Elnor would protect him from any danger that comes Picard's way.

Hummmnn...
I guessed he would be an Orphan, but I suppose two Ex-Tal Shiar Lovers would want to hide any off-spring from their former bosses.

 

[AlanC9]

Now if Raffi or any other human character has a transgendered lover somewhere played by a transgendered actor and no one in the show bats an eye, then yeah that will be very futuristic

Although not too far from how DS9 handled bisexuality.

 

[137th Gebirg]

The Romulan swordsman Elnor is supposed to join the Picard crew in next week's episode. Rumors have it that

Spoiler

Elnor is Zhaban and Laris' son.

Hence Raffi is supposed to be Picard's advisor on Romulan politics and culture, while Elnor would protect him from any danger that comes Picard's way.

I like that. However, my one reservation with that character right now (albeit sight-unseen, admittedly), is that he exhibits quite a few tropes that are a little bit too elvish. The long straight hair, the long flowing robe-like attire, the elaborate sword work (and of course the ears add too it) and, most importantly, his name sounds like something straight out of Tolkien!

 

[BillJ]

This is why I love this place. We've easily been dissecting a single scene for ten pages or so. Sometimes we get snippy, but it is interesting to see the differing perspectives, and fun to debate why we think the way we do.

 

[Yistaan]

The reintroduction of Hugh was well done. It wasn't a big "to-do" and came naturally from the story.

There was a line of Sisko's: "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." Raffi and Rios were expelled from that paradise for whatever and it is natural to see them suffering a kind of PTSD, turning to substance abuse. People were complaining that Raffi vaping was another one of those "Not My Trek" rallying calls for people, but if you follow this idea that they were exiled from paradise, it's not beyond reason.

I continue to dislike the Romulan subplot with Commodore Oh. They really robbed the Narek storyline of any intrigue. And the makeup on Tamlyn Tomita as Oh looks worse than most fans were at Comic-Con and who decided to put sunglasses on her. She looked so goofy.

I liked that Rios' EMH and holo-engineer had echoes of Robert Picardo and James Doohan in their acting and accent, in the latter's case.

We don't need another Starfleet is corrupt storyline. Section 31 was a misstep and Trek seems to think we want to keep going back to it.

The Starfleet is corrupt angle is because the showrunners are ironically trying to get us to that utopia (Patrick Stewart has noted many times the state of the world) by showing us the parallels to our current real world corruption and motivating us to fix it. A quick glance at the news shows, if anything, this message isn't reaching us enough.

I do agree that the substance abuse, especially with Rios where it's made to look "cool" and "manly", shouldn't be on Trek.

Hugh was subtle, too subtle maybe in that if I didn't know ahead of time he was coming his namedrop by Soji might have been missed entirely by me and I wouldn't really know who this character was.

 

[cooleddie74]

I love you guys.

Now let me explain why that love fits with the canon of fan affection using this handy chart...