Poll What do you think of the Starfleet uniforms in Star Trek: Picard?
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Come on, now. Trek has never sunk to the depths of Avatar.
Yet.
Yet.
Are you SURE about that you: "Ugly Bag of mostly water..." (See TNG S1 - "Home Soil")
[*Remembers episode*]
Yes. I'm sure.
Yes. I'm sure.
They appear thicker and better fitting in the video game...and the basic design goes with the basic rendering of the characters. The real ones don’t look as good. Also, it’s a game. The designs (and stories?) are too busy and wouldn’t work in the real world as well.I like them in STO
New image on TrekCore that finally gives us a good look at the admiral's uniform.
The rank pips are framed by a trapezoid similar to the one we saw on the Vulcan/Romulan gold uniform a while back. But here there are five pips, whereas there there was one, IIRC. I don't think there are five different kinds of admirals, so this would seem to indicate that the Vulcan/Romulan was not an admiral after all (as some speculated she was).
The rank pips are framed by a trapezoid similar to the one we saw on the Vulcan/Romulan gold uniform a while back. But here there are five pips, whereas there there was one, IIRC. I don't think there are five different kinds of admirals, so this would seem to indicate that the Vulcan/Romulan was not an admiral after all (as some speculated she was).
Starfleet Admiral or Admiral of Starfleet would be the equivalent of five-pip Admiral. Admirals Morrow and Cartwright held this rank in the late 23rd century.
1 Pip: Rear Admiral Lower Half (or Commodore)
2 Pips: Rear Admiral Upper Half (or just Rear Admiral)
3 Pips: Vice Admiral
4 Pips: Admiral
5 Pips: Fleet Admiral
2 Pips: Rear Admiral Upper Half (or just Rear Admiral)
3 Pips: Vice Admiral
4 Pips: Admiral
5 Pips: Fleet Admiral
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What is that based on?
^ Search for "Starfleet Ranks" and "Navy Ranks".
I just mean, I don’t think we’ve ever seen any canon confirmation of these kinds of ranks, right? At best you’re referring to STO? As far as I remember, most admirals we ever saw had three or four framed pips, with maybe a few with two early on in TNG. Have we ever seen an admiral with one? I don’t think so.
I'm not familiar with STO and I haven't paid much attention to the ranks or pips while watching on TV but I've looked into online sources out of curiosity before and it's a reasonable bet that the starfleet ranks mirror the US navy ranking system until we get confirmation otherwise.
This is what the Star Trek encyclopedia presented us over the years, one from TWOK film era and the other from TNG era:
The TWOK ones are consistent with Naval titles for flag officers. It follows suit with the officer ranks, which also follow current naval structure.
This is what the Star Trek encyclopedia presented us over the years, one from TWOK film era and the other from TNG era:
The TWOK ones are consistent with Naval titles for flag officers. It follows suit with the officer ranks, which also follow current naval structure.
That’s better than STO, to some extent. (I’ve also never played STO.) It isn’t canon if we haven’t seen it, but it’s a reasonable place the producers may have looked to for ideas for the new show. In terms of titles, though, TNG was already very inconsistent. Nacheyev was a Fleet Admiral, but she only ever wore three pips.
I always took "Fleet Admiral" as a role, as well as a full rank.
But, yeah, it's canon until it isn't. But, it at least works.
The closest five different flag ranks we've never got (and there are unconfirmed rumours of a sixth), come from the "Monster Maroons", which in addition to the lapel pins shown above have wrist bands that map resonably well to most of the other rank systems:
The lowest one would correspond to the TOS rank of Commodore (US naval RADM Lower Half, army/air Brigadier General, NATO 1-star) and an unspecified Admiral rank in TNG s1; the next two have never correctly attributed by title, but the rank of Rear Admiral is canonical so one or both of these is likely refered to as such; the third is either Vice Admiral (a three-star rank in the RW, tho this would sit at 4-star level) or Fleet Admiral, given that the only use of either title in live dialogue as opposed to log entries, which are likely added in pre/post without the involvement of wardroom, is Vice Admiral by Ross in Dogs of War:
ROSS: All hands, attention to orders. From Starfleet Headquarters, Office of the Admiralty, to Captain Benjamin L. Sisko. As of this date, you are requested and required to take command of USS Sao Paulo. Signed, Vice Admiral William J. Ross, Stardate 52861.3. Computer, transfer all command codes to Captain Sisko.
COMPUTER: Command codes transferred.
SISKO: I relieve you, sir.
I'm inclinded to favour Vice Admiral as the correct 'three-pip'/four-star rank, and assume that Nechayev (from Chain of Command onwards), Shanthi and Brackett either held "Fleet Admiral" as a positional title (unlikely as Ross, the only exclusively VADM, was mainly seen as a fleet commander) or wardrobe should have used four-pip insignia later created for either Jack Shearer's Strickler (Non Sequitor) or Deborah Strang's T'Lara (Rules of Engagement) as if we treat the commodore rank as OF-6/"one star" (which it is in most non-US services that use it), then the "four pip" rank above would correspond to OF-10, which typically translates to either "Admiral of the Fleet" or "Fleet Admiral" in most navies, including the US.
Not in the TNG Era, but we did in Enterprise, Admiral Forrest in a flashback had a single Admiral's pip
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/File:Maxwell_Forrest,_2143.jpg
Memory-Alpha has an excellent article on Starfleet ranks as they appeared in the shows, and the writers guides.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet_ranks
While STO isn't canon, they get the art assets directly from CBS to use for reference, which I assume would also include rank guides. That single angular pip on that Romulan/Vulcan, until stated otherwise by the show, represents a 1 Pip Admiral.
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Sorry, I'm missing how this connects with your first statement. What is the connection between STO and that photo? Does the Romulan/Vulcan appear in STO as a 1-pip admiral? Or do others appear in this uniform in STO, and are identified as admirals? If so, I agree that that means it will likely be portrayed this way in the show as well.
STO has the Picard uniforms now, and that pip represents a 1-Pip admiral in the game.
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