Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion

Yes, they did not try to explain anything that would make a lifelong member of the First Order suddenly want to defect. A few, ad only a few--thankfully--have tried to fill in the Grand Canyon-sized gaps of the piss-poor script, but that's trying to deflect and erase the fact that Finn's every action and lack of identity proved he was meant to be a Black Buffoon stereotype from the beginning. He had no developed backstory, no cause of his own, and no recognition of who he was from what should have been his unique identity.

The FO's motives were a simplistic as the political implications and rhetoric of some the people behind the sequel trilogy; no detail, no believable reason behind anything.

In truth, we do see moral complexity in OT-Luke: specifically when he is constantly challenged to do things that his soul tells him is not right, such as his decision to temporarily suspend his training to rescue his friends when his moral leaders--Yoda and Kenobi--are telling him to sacrifice them for the greater cause. Later, Luke has moments of anger (goaded by Vader) throughout their duel, which nearly justifies the concerns of his mentors, but as Darth Vader attempts to get Luke to sell his soul to the dark side, Luke displayed a level of maturity well beyond his years by choosing death rather than sell his soul. Its that kind of religious/spiritual warfare between believable, compelling personalities--and which side had the stronger pull--that elevated the OT beyond the common sci-fi film and made it legendary (it certainly was not space battles). that has been lost ever since, with the ST being a hollowed out, "in name only" assemblage of SW trappings with no more substance than a video game.

Lucas seemed to forget that in his original intention / scripting / filming of Han shooting first, Solo was presented as ruthless, while his refusal to help the Rebellion (as he's loading his reward) continued to prove how self-centered he was, which made his sudden reappearance during the Death Star trench run the gasp-inducing surprise/payoff it was meant to be, pre-SE. It told the audience that he was a hero after all--something successfully built on in TESB as he--and Chewbacca--sacrificed time and again for friends and the greater conflict.

...and frankly, if some ancillary product (like a comic or novel) ever suggests he ran thanks to some bigger picture from/or the force, those publications can be tossed in the fire as ridiculous and as much an afterthought as JJA's blurting that force sensitivity notion in a recent interview.

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All because Finn was never written to have a core, unique identity. His life was informed by Reay (first), then running and tripping for no apparent reason. The SW-PTB never cared to develop him at all, hence the very reason his "plots" (if you can call them that) in each ST film mean absolutely nothing to the main story. If you edited Finn out of the films, or gave his so-called part to another character, no one would miss him at all, or feel a vital part of the puzzle is missing.

His piece of a puzzle was not created for SW, but a terrible, racially explosive short subject from 1930.

...or just drape a pointless set of sequels in Star Wars trappings like a tawdry Disney park ride, lacking any sense of the grand myth and spiritualist heart that defined the OT at its best.

If only Finn's plotless plot was as coherent as you've presented it.

 

I forget where I've seen this, either in the OT Novelizations or the Thrawn trilogy, but there's a passage that explains it nicely. That while she was force sensitive, she never chose to actively pursue it like Luke did. That she felt more at home leading the charge of the Rebellion. Personally, I think that may be partly due to her upbringing having been in a political household, and I like that explanation because it feels completely natural. And it helped me to understand what went on with Leia in TLJ. I think that her body had triggered an innate self-preservation within the force, similar to how adrenaline works, that when close to death her body reflexively responded. So yeah, the direction they took her in RoS was a little odd in that respect, as I don't think that aside from reaching out a couple of times, that she'd ever voiced any wish to train. She understood where her place was.

 

I think the scene in TROS pays respect to that idea, while allowing to her to serve the role of training Rey.

 

Just got back from the movie. I thought it was okay. It only really excited me at the final space battle, esp. when all those Resistance ships jumped in.

That said, I have a few questions:

- What is that thing that Maz gives Chewie at the end?
- What kind of secret rejuvenating youth formula is Billy Dee Williams using? Holy SHIT, he barely looks any older than in ROTJ. However that man trains, he does it DAMN good.
-- What eventually happened to the Tantive IV? I thought it was destroyed by force lightning. But that battle went so fast I could barely keep up.
- Was Wedge's voice still overdubbed? I know it was during his appearances in the OT though I'm not sure why.

Oh well. It was a good movie, but I can't say I enjoyed it a whole hell of a lot. But at least we actually SAW Palpatine explode this time!

 

^
Maz gives Chewie Han's medal.

 

On a completely unrelated matter: I think I'm in love with Jannah.

 

He does not discuss it with outsiders

There is no firm answer on this, far as I can tell. Maybe the novel will tell us.

I didn't think so, but the audio stood out to me when he appeared.

 

I thought you were more intelligent than that. There is some spot on criticism of the films, that gets drowned out by political posturing that has nothing to do with the quality of them.

 

Good illustration of Luke's moral/spiritual struggle, though I must point out, I believe that moral complexity/ambiguity was not a strong point for Star Wars films, I didn't say the films were absent them. But that being said, it was a good point you made, and it also made me think of the nuances with Obi-Wan. In a larger sense, I do think that Star Wars, even under Lucas, painted with very broad strokes.

The Empire was just evil. Palpatine, as described by the actor and I think Lucas has also described him thus, as the embodiment of evil. There is no nuance there. He's just bad. It works because Ian McDiarmid is very good in the role and the films are not as focused on Palpatine as they have been on Anakin, Luke, and Rey, etc. With a lesser actor, the Palpatine character could become very disappointing and one dimensional. I remember how awesome Maul was, but a lot of that was Ray Park's marital arts prowess and really the demonic visual of Maul. But underneath, there wasn't much there working for Maul as a character, until the Clone Wars cartoons. The downside was he was less a force of nature, but he became more a legit Sith Lord in Clone Wars and on Rebels. Dooku started off quite interesting, but quickly devolved into just being evil for evil's or plot's sake. There was no nuance to the Trade Federation or the Separatists. Moral complexity was even glossed over when it came to the humans on Naboo and their relationship with the Gunguns, which suggested some kind of darker past that was just hand waved away when Padme needed them. But Lucas never followed up about what happened after the Trade Federation was defeated.

To be fair, Disney Star Wars has tried, with some success, to muddy things a bit. With Saw's Partisans and Cassian Andor in Rogue One, and even Han and Qi'ra, more so Qi'ra in Solo. But still the temptation is too strong to make things Manichean. When it came to the First Order it was a missed opportunity to explore how some people came to the conclusion that the First Order was the way to go. Stealing children, and then brainwashing them, was creatively lazy IMO. Was almost everyone in the First Order brainwashed then? It doesn't seem like Pryde or Hux was, though Ren had been manipulated by Palpatine all along.

 

No, I don't think so. Even without reading the books the impression I got was a lot of Imperial officers looking to maintain their power, so they threw in behind an up and coming challenger to the New Republic power, after the Battle of Jakku.

But, the First Order wanted to increase its power quickly, so use of mental conditioning was preferred for fast conscription, it seems. But, like in Legends EU, the cult of personality surrounding Snoke wasn't sufficient to maintain all conscripts among the stormtroopers.

 

Maybe, but that's where it catches me. She doesn't seem to be the type to be one who would train based on her past history. Though maybe with Luke gone, maybe that changed.

Oh and as for Leia and Ben, I felt it was strongly implied that she was using the last of her energy to influence Ben's thoughts. That's the way I see that scene, anyway.

 

With Luke gone I have no doubt that it changed. That's part of why Leia is such an interesting character; she goes where she feels she is needed. She didn't advocate for fighting the FO in the Senate, but chose to form the Resistance. She steps up to mentor Rey because Luke isn't there. She is able to see the need and move towards it.

 

She's basically her mother's idealism combined with her father's passion and temperament.

 

I'm simply saying that I don't automatically disagree with everything the folks on Youtube have to say about the current Star Wars movies simply because it's on Youtube.

At least, from stuff said here that's the impression that I got.

 

I certainly can’t speak for everyone but I am perfectly fine with people posting their opinions on YouTube. I don’t agree with a lot of them but I’ve learned to remove those voices from my life. What my biggest issue is that people just post someone else’s video and use that as an argument. It’s lazy because they’re not YOUR thoughts. The idea of me sitting through a video, it needs to interest me. And be short enough. Posting a 2-3 hour video? That’s just too much. No one has time for that. Try to articulate your own opinions. Utilize sources (including videos if you have to) but come up with your own coherent argument. Don’t steal from someone else. That’s my problem with YouTube.

 

People who put too much stock in YouTube accounts like Red Letter Media can be just as big a problem as the people who are driven to troll accounts full of hate videos. I learned to not place that much stock in any opinion on YouTube, pro or con.

I find myself in strong agreement with the guys at Trekyards and also find myself wondering what on Earth they're drinking and smoking if they can come up with the opinions they have. That said: they're just two more opinions in a vast ocean of YouTube videos and deserve no more intellectual weight than others in the grander scheme of things.

 

I think I read somewhere that Pryde was a veteran of the original Empire.Hux was the son of an Imperial admiral, so I have a feeling he was just raised to be loyal to the FO, although if you want to get picky, it could be argued that that is a form of brainwashing.

 

Hux's father was, if I'm correct, the head of a significant Imperial training academy. If not on Carida then one of the others run by the Empire during the Dark Times and the Galactic Civil War.

 

Honestly, I find many of the folks here who are simply discussing the ups and downs of a particular film/TV show far more insightful than anything shit out of YouTube.

 

There's far more crap when it comes to YouTube "review videos" than there is worthwhile content. A lot of them are just drivel and clickbait.