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Joker Origin Story Announced

Anwar said:
Burton's movies led to Batman and Robin, so that goodwill was eliminated. Just like how the Reeves movies went out with a whimper rather than a bang due to "Quest for Peace".

Nolan's ways led to the misguided approach of MOS, BvS and Suicide Squad, and even TDKR didn't come off as a good ending. So again, not the best legacy.

Raimi's movies ended with SM3...

The MCU is the only one of its kind with its scope, scale and ambition.
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Yeah, as I wrote earlier, Batman 88 and Superman 78 were good movies but were false starts. Less visionary directors didn't get them and ruined their legacy. Yet they did prove that it was possible to make good superhero movies, so their legacy lives on.
 
crookeddy said:
Nah. MCU took it to heights never before imagined. I would rank the most important superhero movies like so:
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I said laid the ground work. What the MCU did after its forebearers is up to it.
Anwar said:
The MCU is the only one of its kind with its scope, scale and ambition.
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Without the work of prior films such a scale would not be imaginable. That's my point.

I care little for the MCU, but acting like it just made comic book films suddenly a thing is disingenuous, at best.
 
fireproof78 said:
I said laid the ground work. What the MCU did after its forebearers is up to it.

Without the work of prior films such a scale would not be imaginable. That's my point.

I care little for the MCU, but acting like it just made comic book films suddenly a thing is disingenuous, at best.
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It elevated them to a level that even Star Wars couldn't beat. A level others failed to reach to and often collapsed on themselves and dragged the genre down with it. MCU has succeeded without collapsing or failing the genre.
 
Anwar said:
It elevated them to a level that even Star Wars couldn't beat. A level others failed to reach to and often collapsed on themselves and dragged the genre down with it. MCU has succeeded without collapsing or failing the genre.
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I'll stick with my view, since most people I know didn't get in to comic books until after seeing films like X-Men, Blade, Batman, and the like. Yes, the MCU took it higher, but others laid the groundwork. That's my point. Because the MCU did more with that groundwork doesn't make those films less.

Failing the genre is in the eyes of the beholder.

MCU is great but is becoming just like comic books did-convoluted, intertwined and inaccessible due to the size.
 
Anwar said:
The filmmakers knew their movie would've bombed and Phoenix ignored if not for them hijacking the character names they'd prefer they not use, therefore showing Hollywood hasn't learned a poor thing.
And thinking stuff like losing weight and overacting merits awards. Or rather, Pity Awards.
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More unsubstantiated crap posted through oceans of tears generated by the fact the MCU could not generate a single important nomination. As much as you probably thought Downey Jr and Brolin gave the "bestest actin' EVAR" in Endgame, no one in their right mind was going to recognize them.

Joker only got this thanks to the MCU's hard work in enhancing the image of CBMs.
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Revisionist bullshit and lies. Ledger won before anyone even blinked at the MCU, while The Dark Knight (the global movie event of 2008--the same year the MCU started with two films) was nominated for 8 Academy Awards overall, winning two. No one cared about the MCU at that time...and apparently, still do not care.

There's a Gold Standard for comic book movies, and with the exception of two, perhaps three films, its not in the MCU.

Without Black Panther's Noms last year, this never would've happened
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More revisionist bullshit and lies.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
More unsubstantiated crap
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Nah, just the unpleasant truth of the matter. Phoenix and Phillips are open about how they wished they could've just called it "Clown" or "Arthur" but knew it wouldn't have succeeded without them co-opting the Joker name.

As much as you probably thought Downey Jr and Brolin gave the "bestest actin' EVAR" in Endgame, no one in their right mind was going to recognize them.
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They asked not to be nominated. Although their acting did involve more nuance and depth than losing weight and laughing a lot.

Revisionist bullshit and lies. Ledger won
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Cause he died. His acting as Nolan Joker wasn't even that good.

The Dark Knight (the global movie event of 2008--the same year the MCU started with two films) was nominated for 8 Academy Awards overall, winning two.
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Because it had an Academy darling who died and an Academy Darling Director who they felt pity for. Without those factors, TDK wouldn't have gotten a second glance.

No one cared about the MCU at that time...and apparently, still do not care.
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No one died. But even without that, didn't stop Black Panther from doing what TDK couldn't and get a Best Picture Nom.

There's a Gold Standard for comic book movies,
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Yeah, and even with the MCU constantly making that standard we still get In Name Only stuff that want their share of the loot by jealous directors who otherwise openly mock CBMs.

More revisionist bullshit and lies.
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Just the harsh truth. After the TDKR fizzled out things for the Nolan movies and the DCEU started turning folks off to DC in general it was up to the MCU to hold up the genre and do what even Ledger's death couldn't do and get a Best Picture Nom.

Sorry, but I'm tired of beating around the bush.
 
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crookeddy said:
Well your favorite Batman is '66, so if you don't like something it's very likely that most of the world will.
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Good for the rest of the world...I think...maybe. It's not like I wasn't on the MCU bandwagon for Thor and Captain America and the Avengers. It just became too much like homework after Avengers.

I think Nolan's Batman is good, and movies like that and Blade and X-Men actually got me in to comic book films. But, the MCU did exactly what comics did to be to begin with-so much material as to completely daunting to try to catch up.
 
My wife and I try to watch all the Best Picture nominations every year. We've been home with the flu and just rented it. I respect what it was trying to do and I think it succeeded. Just wasn’t for me.

(For the record, I didn’t think Black Panther deserved a BP nod last year either.)
 
Campe98 said:
My wife and I try to watch all the Best Picture nominations every year. We've been home with the flu and just rented it. I respect what it was trying to do and I think it succeeded. Just wasn’t for me.

(For the record, I didn’t think Black Panther deserved a BP nod last year either.)
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Agreed on both filmic counts, though I think Phoenix and the composer of the excellent soundtrack both richly deserve their nominations.
 
Captaindemotion said:
Agreed on both filmic counts, though I think Phoenix and the composer of the excellent soundtrack both richly deserve their nominations.
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Phoenix did a good job and I can get behind his nomination but I prefer Ledger’s performance. And yes, the soundtrack was very well done as well.
 
Campe98 said:
Phoenix did a good job and I can get behind his nomination but I prefer Ledger’s performance. And yes, the soundtrack was very well done as well.
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I probably preferred Ledger too but that’s not to take away from Phoenix’s extraordinary, physical, haunted performance. Two very different takes.
 
If I had to pick my favorite live action joker performance I'd have to go with Ledgers as well, but Phoenix did a really good job with it. Much better than Leto did. If Nicholson had been about 8 years younger when he did Tim Burton's Batman I would give the nod to him. But I just can't get past the fact that by that point he was too heavy for the part.
 
ichab said:
If I had to pick my favorite live action joker performance I'd have to go with Ledgers as well, but Phoenix did a really good job with it. Much better than Leto did. If Nicholson had been about 8 years younger when he did Tim Burton's Batman I would give the nod to him. But I just can't get past the fact that by that point he was too heavy for the part.
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I'd probably go with Phoenix then Nicholson. Ledger's performance never really did anything for me, neither did The Dark Knight.
 
ichab said:
If I had to pick my favorite live action joker performance I'd have to go with Ledgers as well, but Phoenix did a really good job with it. Much better than Leto did.
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I think Leto’s performance is underrated. I’m not saying it’s on the same level as Ledger or Phoenix, but I liked it.

Also, Ledger and Phoenix had much better scripts to work with.

What’s amazing about this character is how different they all are. Every actor who takes on the role has a unique take. Romero, Nicholson, Hamill, Ledger, Leto, Phoenix... every one of them completely original.
 
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