Joker Origin Story Announced

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Starbreaker, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I will ignore the rest of your paranoid ramblings, as they are either opinion or speculations neither provable nor disprovable. This one, however, is simply factually wrong, as Elfman scored both the first Spider-Man and Ang Lee's Hulk in-between his work on Batman Returns and Spider-Man 2.
     
  2. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nah. MCU took it to heights never before imagined. I would rank the most important superhero movies like so:

    1) Superman TMP
    2) Batman 88
    3) X-Men
    4) Spider-Man1/2 (equally important)
    5) Iron Man
    6) Dark Knight
    7) Avengers
    8) Endgame

    Endgame took comic book movies to Star Wars level of popularity, and that all started with Iron Man. Dark Knight showed that you can make a more or less serious movie from a superhero property. X-Men started modern effects heavy superhero movies. Spider-Man made them popular. Superman and Batman really started it all, though both were false starts because of awful sequels.
     
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  3. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Burton's movies led to Batman and Robin, so that goodwill was eliminated. Just like how the Reeves movies went out with a whimper rather than a bang due to "Quest for Peace".

    Nolan's ways led to the misguided approach of MOS, BvS and Suicide Squad, and even TDKR didn't come off as a good ending. So again, not the best legacy.

    Raimi's movies ended with SM3...

    The MCU is the only one of its kind with its scope, scale and ambition.
     
  4. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And he did a good job in Spider-Man too.
     
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  5. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, as I wrote earlier, Batman 88 and Superman 78 were good movies but were false starts. Less visionary directors didn't get them and ruined their legacy. Yet they did prove that it was possible to make good superhero movies, so their legacy lives on.
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I said laid the ground work. What the MCU did after its forebearers is up to it.
    Without the work of prior films such a scale would not be imaginable. That's my point.

    I care little for the MCU, but acting like it just made comic book films suddenly a thing is disingenuous, at best.
     
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  7. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It elevated them to a level that even Star Wars couldn't beat. A level others failed to reach to and often collapsed on themselves and dragged the genre down with it. MCU has succeeded without collapsing or failing the genre.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I'll stick with my view, since most people I know didn't get in to comic books until after seeing films like X-Men, Blade, Batman, and the like. Yes, the MCU took it higher, but others laid the groundwork. That's my point. Because the MCU did more with that groundwork doesn't make those films less.

    Failing the genre is in the eyes of the beholder.

    MCU is great but is becoming just like comic books did-convoluted, intertwined and inaccessible due to the size.
     
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  9. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, that's kind of inevitable after 10 years worth of stories.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    And hopefully it dies soon.

    Because, thus far, the MCU has pretty much turned me off of comic book movies for the next ten years.
     
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  11. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    More unsubstantiated crap posted through oceans of tears generated by the fact the MCU could not generate a single important nomination. As much as you probably thought Downey Jr and Brolin gave the "bestest actin' EVAR" in Endgame, no one in their right mind was going to recognize them.

    Revisionist bullshit and lies. Ledger won before anyone even blinked at the MCU, while The Dark Knight (the global movie event of 2008--the same year the MCU started with two films) was nominated for 8 Academy Awards overall, winning two. No one cared about the MCU at that time...and apparently, still do not care.

    There's a Gold Standard for comic book movies, and with the exception of two, perhaps three films, its not in the MCU.

    More revisionist bullshit and lies.
     
  12. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nah, just the unpleasant truth of the matter. Phoenix and Phillips are open about how they wished they could've just called it "Clown" or "Arthur" but knew it wouldn't have succeeded without them co-opting the Joker name.

    They asked not to be nominated. Although their acting did involve more nuance and depth than losing weight and laughing a lot.

    Cause he died. His acting as Nolan Joker wasn't even that good.

    Because it had an Academy darling who died and an Academy Darling Director who they felt pity for. Without those factors, TDK wouldn't have gotten a second glance.

    No one died. But even without that, didn't stop Black Panther from doing what TDK couldn't and get a Best Picture Nom.

    Yeah, and even with the MCU constantly making that standard we still get In Name Only stuff that want their share of the loot by jealous directors who otherwise openly mock CBMs.

    Just the harsh truth. After the TDKR fizzled out things for the Nolan movies and the DCEU started turning folks off to DC in general it was up to the MCU to hold up the genre and do what even Ledger's death couldn't do and get a Best Picture Nom.

    Sorry, but I'm tired of beating around the bush.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  13. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well your favorite Batman is '66, so if you don't like something it's very likely that most of the world will.
     
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  14. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Don't worry, soon Joker will be a memory and folks will go back to eating up the monotonous slop that is the MCU.
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Good for the rest of the world...I think...maybe. It's not like I wasn't on the MCU bandwagon for Thor and Captain America and the Avengers. It just became too much like homework after Avengers.

    I think Nolan's Batman is good, and movies like that and Blade and X-Men actually got me in to comic book films. But, the MCU did exactly what comics did to be to begin with-so much material as to completely daunting to try to catch up.
     
  16. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My wife and I try to watch all the Best Picture nominations every year. We've been home with the flu and just rented it. I respect what it was trying to do and I think it succeeded. Just wasn’t for me.

    (For the record, I didn’t think Black Panther deserved a BP nod last year either.)
     
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  17. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed on both filmic counts, though I think Phoenix and the composer of the excellent soundtrack both richly deserve their nominations.
     
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  18. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Phoenix did a good job and I can get behind his nomination but I prefer Ledger’s performance. And yes, the soundtrack was very well done as well.
     
  19. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

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    I probably preferred Ledger too but that’s not to take away from Phoenix’s extraordinary, physical, haunted performance. Two very different takes.
     
  20. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don’t disagree. Just preferred Ledger.
     
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