Spoilers Dark PhoeniX - Review and Discussion Thread
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This review makes me
How could they try telling this story once, mess it up, and then repeat the same mistakes?
That's what happens when you hire the same writer who fucked it up the first time, and then also let him direct it.
The funny thing (for me) is that some complaints about X-Men III focused on shoehorning the Phoenix stuff into another story-line instead of devoting the time needed to something so potentially grand. I think those complaints have a lot of merit. So a do-over where the entire story is devoted to Jean/Phoenix should be a step in the right direction. And yet even with more time to tell the tale, the film just hits the same damn beats. Dark Phoenix might be better than XIII (IMO) but it's also more boring for the most part.
Thanks to having no Logan this time around, Scott gets slightly more to do, but nothing of real substance.
Something broke Jean open, she starts to have trouble controlling it, people give Xavier shit for meddling with her head when she was little, she kills someone from her own team, she joins up with a hostile force, she stands around a lot and shows signs of struggle within, she turns good at the last minute.
Thanks to having no Logan this time around, Scott gets slightly more to do, but nothing of real substance.
"she joins up with a hostile force"
Having read the Dark Phoenix Saga and imagined how it might work as a film, this part is mind-boggling to me. I mean...the whole reason why Dark Phoenix is such a big deal is because she doesn't need to join a hostile force. They're beneath her.
Yes, in the comics Jean is originally corrupted by the Hellfire Club and all, but once she goes over the edge she hardly needs them anymore.
What this should be is allies and enemies coming together because they have to, without any of the usual Magneto trickery as evidenced in DoFP, because DP is such an existential threat to everyone that their usual rivalries are utterly irrelevant by comparison.
She made a sun go nova. Does this sound like someone who needs to join with anyone else?
If this was a Trek movie, it should be the Borg entering the AQ in force in the middle of a Federation-Romulan war or such. The Borg don't care about your petty little wars because they'll assimilate or destroy all of you if that's what they want to do and you don't find a way to stop them.
Sorry, I was just so excited when I heard they were going to take another swing at Dark Phoenix and so disappointed to hear that their vision still seems so limited.
Having read the Dark Phoenix Saga and imagined how it might work as a film, this part is mind-boggling to me. I mean...the whole reason why Dark Phoenix is such a big deal is because she doesn't need to join a hostile force. They're beneath her.
Yes, in the comics Jean is originally corrupted by the Hellfire Club and all, but once she goes over the edge she hardly needs them anymore.
What this should be is allies and enemies coming together because they have to, without any of the usual Magneto trickery as evidenced in DoFP, because DP is such an existential threat to everyone that their usual rivalries are utterly irrelevant by comparison.
She made a sun go nova. Does this sound like someone who needs to join with anyone else?
If this was a Trek movie, it should be the Borg entering the AQ in force in the middle of a Federation-Romulan war or such. The Borg don't care about your petty little wars because they'll assimilate or destroy all of you if that's what they want to do and you don't find a way to stop them.
Sorry, I was just so excited when I heard they were going to take another swing at Dark Phoenix and so disappointed to hear that their vision still seems so limited.
X-Men: Apocalypse. As a self-contained movie, I don't think it was worse than mediocre, but, all considered, it was a pretty impressive act of self-sabotage:
- It basically destroyed Magneto as a character. He wimps out on his big White House announcement (following his stated intent at the end of First Class) to lead a mutant movement to live a quiet life of a rural blue-collar worker? Lame. And then he becomes some new baddie's stooge? Lamer. And then, after presumably killing tens of thousands with his worldwide magnetic antics, Charles calls him "old friend" and lets him walk free?! This isn't a supervillain, this is an annoying neighbor in a sitcom.
- This has the side effect of making Xavier look like an idiot.
- And the international community, to boot.
- Keeping J-Law around: DoFP was written around Mystique in a way that was convenient to Lawrence's stardom, but at least made sense. But she hangs around Apocalypse, and becomes a leader of the X-Men, for no good reason. This is Fox saying Lawrence's stardom is more important than story integrity. (Also, they should have recast her for her refusal to wear the makeup. I don't blame her one bit for being over all that, but Fox wasn't obligated to keep her on.)
- The new class: with Wolverine out of the picture, a rogue (no pun intended) X-person was necessary to balance out the bland goodness of the new kids. Not only did Apocalypse not even attempt this, it included Logan himself to highlight said gap. This is Fox saying they think they can coast on name recognition and familiar characters for their heroes.
- En Sabah Nur: defying common sense and the OT Star Wars/MCU example, this movie pulled the most powerful enemy ever out of thin air, in-universe wise, without hinting or building up to him. And then they went all-in on a fantastically elaborate (and, to be fair, accomplished) makeup job on a normal-sized actor, when it was clear that a CG giant a la Thanos was not only entirely doable, but dramatically necessary. This is Fox refusing to break new ground, and enlarge the scope of its X-world.
The DoFP follow-up should have been about Erik going full Magneto supervillain, with a futuristic Genosha, Asteroid M, all that stuff, with hints towards Apocalypse and alien civilizations. Had they taken a big swing in that direction, even if it took an additional year, they would have beaten Infinity War to theaters by a year. If they'd done so, and said movie had lived up to DoFP box-office and critics-wise, well... the Fox thing would probably still have happened and doomed the franchise, to be honest. But they'd have had time to make one last, fourth First Class movie, that might not have opened to a series low and lost money.
But even then, not really. Mystique's power is just to look like someone/thing else, not to actually copy their powers. Rogue should have been the focal point of the drama.
Whoever running things didn't care about what made the most sense for the characters, just what allowed them to give Lawrence the most screentime and importance.
Everything you said. Top marks.
With J-Law, it was reported a year before DOFP came out in theaters that, she was done with the franchise but was contractually obligated to keep making at least one more. The best thing about Mystique, is they could've recast her with a new actress (because, you know, shapeshifter) and no one would've cared. The J-Law media darling "phase" ended with Hunger Games 2 at the end of 2014. Her BO and critical returns have been diminishing ever since. But Fox likely believed she still had star power and that people were showing up to their movies because Academy Award winner Jennifer Lawrence was in them. Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix delivered the message home that nobody cares.
As to Apocalypse himself, the movie got him completely wrong. The costume looked great but no CGI enhancement to deliver the size and menace he brings in the comics or even the cartoons. His motives in other media, are one world, under him. His rage is always thrown at the mutant community first. En Sabah Nur was the first mutant and it was mutants who betrayed him in ancient times. So, when he awakens in present day, wiping out most and subjugating others was his goal. He also didn't need to mind switch with other mutants to get new powers. His mutant ability is the ability to have any power he could imagine. He sticks mainly with telekinesis, size alteration and shapeshifting (like DS9 Changelings).
Apocalypse (the movie) should've been another mutants united against a common threat bigger than anyone can take alone. Also, Apocalypse corrupts and brainwashes most of his horsemen. They don't all just join him willingly. Like in the movie.
This is why making Mystique an elevated focus in Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix was a really bad move. Mystique has no offensive or defensive tactical abilities. X-Men is an action franchise and they chose to focus on a character, who when the bullets and fists start flying, is always hiding until the battle is over.
In FC she hid in the Blackbird, until Magneto killed Shaw.
In DOFP her camouflage ability didn't protect her when the Sentinels began their genocide against the mutants.
In Apocalypse she was a bystander to the Xavier Mansion blowing up, the Alkali Lake detour and the showdown in Cairo. Taking cover behind buildings when Magneto, Jean, Storm and Cyclops roasted Apocalypse.
Dark Phoenix - Leads the team, but it's Quicksilver, Jean and Kurt who do nearly all the work in the mission
I guess you skipped the prior two movies, then.
Do what now?
You're forgetting something.
Right? Oh, and, of course, shape-changing aliens. All aliens must be shape-shifters. All the D'Bari did in the comic was get wiped out, here the survivors are shape-shifting avengers of their race.This review makes me
How could they try telling this story once, mess it up, and then repeat the same mistakes?
The film had good moments and some decent character bits. but overall, it failed.
Rogue wasn't born yet, and they did establish it took several decades for the sentinels to become the ultimate shape-shifting baddie versions of themselves. I agree it's not a perfect reason, but it's solid enough for story purposes, and it gave DoFP an ending that, as much as I love the MCU, the MCU's never had - a story climax that hinges on a moral choice, to forgo an act of righteous vengeance.
Indeed.
It's been a while, and i remember wondering why she was a good guy back then too. Maybe I forgot a lot (understandably) but this time she was full-on team leader and moral lecturer. If she was before, I forgot, I guess. It really hit me in the face this time.
X3 - Both of Jean's parents are alive and living with her as a younger child than Sophie Turner, who portayed her as 80s Jean In Apocalypse. Jean's mom would've had to die prior to the Wolverine going back in time and changing the timeline.
Jean dies in the 90s but died in X3 in the 2000s.
Jean is giving a speech at the start of X1 to congress about the emergence of mutants. But Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix has them out in public. Like it's no big deal.
Styker was exposed and arrested by Moira McTaggert at the end of Apocalypse. I very seriously doubt Stryker will be able to be meeting with the president in the 2000s and kick off the events of X2.
There are other incongruities, but you get the idea. Matthew Vaughn was right. There was no place for the FC cast to go after DOFP.
Distraction
An actual applicable use of Mystique's powers. My apologies.
This is all you need to see. ̶J̶e̶n̶n̶i̶f̶e̶r̶ ̶L̶a̶w̶r̶e̶n̶c̶e̶/̶K̶a̶t̶i̶n̶i̶s̶s̶ ̶E̶v̶e̶r̶d̶e̶e̶n̶ Mystique is made the official leader of the X-Men.
A mutant with weather powers and lightning on demand.
A mutant with telekinetic powers off the scale and telepathic powers that surpass Xavier's.
A mutant who can knock down buildings with his optic blasts.
A mutant with long and short range teleportation powers.
A mutant with super speed that even the Flash would be envious of.
All led by a mutant with shapeshifting/disguise powers. Who, as I said before is never in the line of fire when battles have to be fought. Not because it makes sense in the context of the story. Not because it fits with her character in the comics. But because Jennifer Lawrence is playing her. It's silly the levels the FC series was contorted to make Mystique the center of it. Remember that Cerebro's color was designed after Mystique (Apocalypse). Beast is a big blue cat/gorilla because of Mystique (First Class). The final charge in Dark Phoenix is under the rallying cry "it's what Raven would've done".
DOFP took the correct liberties with her character as the focus. In the comics and animated show from the 90s, Mystique leads a Brotherhood of Mutants on an assault on Congress. Where Senator Kelly is killed. The movie changed it to Trask. Because of this public and overt display of violence by mutants, the governments of the world went all in on the Sentinel program and "the final solution" to the mutant problem. And of course, Mystique having no offensive or defensive abilities to fight in the robot apocalypse. Was killed alongside a plurality of other mutants. Good and bad.
Why would leadership depend on power level... Is the general always the best shooter in the real world?
These things are incongruities to you.
The vast majority of the 'problems' people find with the XMCU wouldn't exist if people didn't insist on being incessantly nitpicky.
Physician, heal thyself.
At that point in the story (Apocalypse), what qualifications did Mystique have as leader?
She rode along with other mutants during the Cuban Missile Crisis. It was Banshee, Magneto, Beast, Xavier and Havok who did all the heavy lifting.
In DOFP she both succeeded and failed at igniting the Rise Of The Machines/Judgement Day, that saw the world of the future destroyed. Even when both Charles and Erik tell her the future, she still is dead set on going through with it.
In Apocalypse she's a reluctant celebrity among mutants, but has been in hiding as a human (you know, that self-conscious journey of acceptance she had in FC) for 10 years. She does put some skin in the game when she tries to end Apocalypse. It goes badly, and she spends the rest of the fight hiding behind a destroyed wall.
Mystique has no tactical offensive or defensive powers. Nor has she ever displayed a mind for strategy and coordination of a team.
She's made the leader of the X-Men because of who the actress is, and or seniority among the other recruits.
Since Charles is in a wheelchair/mentor/surrogate father. Beast is the pilot and engineer. Someone needs to lead the young generation. I would've voted for Cyclops. Since most of the X-Men are his age and he needed to grow up to be the team captain. Use his brother's recent death as motivation to try his hardest and be the best.
I'm not a stickler about power levels, either. Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, Kitty, Jean, Magneto and others have all lead the team before. Prior to leading, they all displayed their valor are tact for the position.
I want to say that it's a deleted scene on the Blu-ray. In the theatrical cut, he just fucking bolts when Weapon X is released.
You are to X-Men when anwar is to the MCU... You will defend the movies to the death even when you aren't even close to being right. Why?
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