Different species & comprehension of time

[JesterFace]

Do all species feel the passage of time in the same way?

I started to think about this when watching the beginning of Voyager.
From a human perspective Ocampas live only about 9 years.
But, how do they experience it?
Might it feel like our average, say 75 years? Might different species sense time differently?
Their 9 years might feel longer than our lifespan.

As I've not gone beyond season 2 of Voyager for a long time I don't remember the end result of Ocampa's non-corporeal spacey thingy, perhaps they could live longer in that form but the 9 year corporeal form was just an example in this case.

 

[Silvercrest]

I dunno ... if so, Kes would be used to living life at a much faster pace. Life on Voyager would seem glacial to her. Look at her shifts in sickbay, where the Doctor was teaching medical practices at a more or less human rate. Even though she picked up information fast, it wasn't any quicker than "human prodigy" fast. If she was going for a medical degree, it still would've taken the better part of her lifetime. And she never made any such complaint.

For someone who lives 1/10 a human lifespan but perceives it correspondingly faster, you might envision that one hour would be the equivalent of several for her (if not 10). A couple of hours in sickbay would be a long day. She'd then have to sleep for an hour or two, then back in sickbay. A day off would only be a few hours for her. Her pace and schedule would seem really unusual to everyone else. We didn't see any of that.

This is ignoring the old "talking like a chipmunk" trope, which we didn't see either. It might make sense for someone who lives faster, but we can handwave it for expediency.

 

[eschaton]

I dunno ... if so, Kes would be used to living life at a much faster pace. Life on Voyager would seem glacial to her. Look at her shifts in sickbay, where the Doctor was teaching medical practices at a more or less human rate. Even though she picked up information fast, it wasn't any quicker than "human prodigy" fast. If she was going for a medical degree, it still would've taken the better part of her lifetime. And she never made any such complaint.

For someone who lives 1/10 a human lifespan but perceives it correspondingly faster, you might envision that one hour would be the equivalent of several for her (if not 10). A couple of hours in sickbay would be a long day. She'd then have to sleep for an hour or two, then back in sickbay. A day off would only be a few hours for her. Her pace and schedule would seem really unusual to everyone else. We didn't see any of that.

This is ignoring the old "talking like a chipmunk" trope, which we didn't see either. It might make sense for someone who lives faster, but we can handwave it for expediency.

IIRC there's a fair amount of evidence that human beings do not experience time at equal speeds across their entire life, with childhood running "slowly" but faster and faster subjective passage of time as your life goes on. Considering children have little issue with being at school for most of a day, I thus don't think it would seem that burdensome to an Ocampa.

 

[Silvercrest]

For humans, I think that's true. But for Ocampa, it's problematic. If an Ocampa is mature at 2, in order to have any kind of education they'd have to learn and be taught a minimum of eight times faster than us. Like you say, a human child has little issue being at school for a day (apart from certain children I know ). But they don't have the same requirements. If a human child required that kind of input and attended a modern school, he or she would be climbing the walls from frustration before the first day was out. So I don't think the comparison works well.

And as I said, the Doctor wasn't educating Kes that fast either, so what was she experiencing?

We could speculate that in their first two years, Ocampa education (and perception) actually does go that fast, but slows down after the first couple of years — so that by the time we met Kes, she was experiencing things at a more or less normal speed. But then the answer to the OP (for an adult at least) would probably be "no."

 

[Tenacity]

She'd then have to sleep for an hour or two

Maybe Ocampa didn't need to sleep, unlike Humans Kes wouldn't be "losing" one third of her short life.

. Considering children have little issue with being at school for most of a day

Ummm?

And as I said, the Doctor wasn't educating Kes that fast either, so what was she experiencing?

Perhaps when there was no one else around, Kes would have the EMH accelerate to her rate of learning. To anyone else the dialog between the Doctor and Kes would sound like a squeel.

The audience would experience this as normal speed speech.

 

[Silvercrest]

I can see that!

(even if I can't hear it )

 

[eschaton]

While I really wish more thought had gone into designing the Ocampa, at least they aren't as ridiculous as the Scalosians from Wink of an Eye.

 

[Kilana2]

You should ask characters like Xyon (New Frontier), Naomi Wildman and Alexander Rozhenko who all suffer from rapid aging.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Might it feel like our average, say 75 years? Might different species sense time differently?
Their 9 years might feel longer than our lifespan.

There are several possible dimensions: sensory, developmental, and cultural.

Yes, Ocampa live shorter lives and seem to mature far more rapidly than other humanoids--Kes' emotional age must have been 40, which Neelix's was 14. However, she came from a society that was comparatively stagnant. In general, Ocampans may have had no expectations that projects started in their lifetimes would be completed in their lifetimes. Indeed, I suspect there was no appreciation for progress on any scale. Certainly, this has happened in human history. Medieval town and city folk could live in the shadows of half-completed cathedrals for centuries. Kes' perception of the passing of time might be quite comparable to her humanoid crewmates. Indeed, she might have been more accepting of the idea that it could take more than a lifetime to reach the Federation.

 

[Silvercrest]

[emotional age] Neelix's was 14.

This! This! A thousand times this!
I salute you, sir or ma'am.

 

[1001001]

 

[Silvercrest]

Time is the fire in which we burn.

I heard that somewhere.

 

[Kor]

While I really wish more thought had gone into designing the Ocampa, at least they aren't as ridiculous as the Scalosians from Wink of an Eye.

Or that VOY episode that ripped it off.

Kor

 

[eschaton]

Or that VOY episode that ripped it off.

Kor

That was at least a little more sensible. Except for the fact that a world which experienced time so slowly should have been extremely close to its star. After all, the number of photons per (local) second reaching the planet would be only a fraction of a normal world in its orbit, meaning it should have been in a deep freeze.

On the other hand, the atoms of the Scalosians were moving so fast that they should have converted the decks of the Enterprise into plasma.

 

[at Quark's]

Maybe Ocampa didn't need to sleep, unlike Humans Kes wouldn't be "losing" one third of her short life.Ummm?Perhaps when there was no one else around, Kes would have the EMH accelerate to her rate of learning. To anyone else the dialog between the Doctor and Kes would sound like a squeel.

The audience would experience this as normal speed speech.

Almost a pity they never filmed such a scene. Paris coming in for his duty shift, hears some squeaking, and sees the doctor and Kes moving about impossibly fast (exactly as if you play a recording at 10* speed). Paris shouts: "hey, slow down you two!" after which they instantly become "normal" and Kes says in her most pleasant voice "oh hi Tom, we hadn't noticed you..,."

 

[JesterFace]

Time is the fire in which we burn.

I heard that somewhere.

Tolian Soran in 'Generations' ?

 

[Silvercrest]

Naw, not him. It was someone famous. Maybe Malcolm McDowell.
Or maybe Andie McDowell.
Or perhaps it was Roddy McDowall.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Ocampa clearly have incredible memory and must have great ability to adapt and advanced intuition.

There’s no evidence they experience time any slower though.

I’m not sure I agree children experience time slower. But I do think that you remember time as being more dilated the more new and different things you’ve done. Regardless of your age, a week spent doing new and different things will feel longer than a week doing your regular routine. And young kids are constantly doing things for the first time. That would apply to Kes.

 

[F. King Daniel]

This reminds me of Smallville and writers not thinking through the implications of what they establish. Like, why can Clark do all his chores at superspeed, but not his homework? Surely his thinking needs to be accelerated to operate at superspeed? But that would make him some kind of super genius too when he's a Dougal-from-Father-Ted-like superderp.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

From a human perspective Ocampas live only about 9 years.
But, how do they experience it?

If Ocampa experience time any differently than other races do, they would never be able to interact with said races.

Remember Sarina Douglas from DS9? She was one of the "Jack Pack" who had been subjected to illegal genetic engineering. Sarina appeared to be near-catatonic and unaware of her surroundings, but this was because her enhancements changed her perception of time.

Tolian Soran in 'Generations' ?

Yep.

Fun fact: Malcolm McDowell loved that line so much that he had it engraved on the pocket watch he wears in the film.