The positive Voyager thread: What was good with the series?

I like lots of things about Voyager, mostly the same things I like about TNG. It's a vehicle to tell interesting science fiction stories and morality plays with a mostly likeable cast of characters. Janeway is also a refreshing character when contrasted with Picard and Sisko - more idealistic and optimistic than Sisko, but more action oriented and prone to Kirk-style moments of almost logic-defying badassery than Picard was.

Voyager also did meta episodes really well and was often given to taking itself a lot less seriously than TNG and DS9. It opens the opportunity for episodes that are just there explicitly for fun and nothing else, and most of them work, except for the Captain Proton ones, which are shit. But even then, Kate Mulgrew's spider queen outfit gets a laugh every time.

Agreed, I like how everyone's almost ridiculously chilled out about their situation and how they continuously decide to take opportunities to explore and find cool things on the journey home.

A lot of people seemed to hate that aspect introduced by TNG, that Federation humans in the 24th century completely under-react to basically everything and are prepared to risk their lives daily just for the sake of exploration, but I liked it a lot.

 

I am sure there's a question pending...

 

I understand "parodic" to mean "a parody," as in "a comedic or satirical imitation."

 

Yes, that's what I intended it to mean.

Take the Doctor and his operatic efforts for example, especially in that episode where he loses his mind... That's definitely a parody. There are plenty of others like that.

 

Couldn't we just bypass parodical and move straight to satirical?

NVM, as you were

 

Although admittedly it's often the Doctor like when he parodies Beowulf for example but we also see some efforts with Janeway with that FlashGordonlike program...

 

I have to strongly disagree with some of your comments.

Kes isn't terrible in any way. I find her one of the best characters ever in Star trek, mostly because she isn't the typical cut-out Star Trek female hero. She is beautiful and nice, yes but also brave, strong-willed, determined and curious with interesting mental abilities. She also has a way to solve problems by moving around them and attacking them from another angle. She's both a contrast and a complement to more standard characters like janeway, Torres and Seven.

With her will to learn and explore she personifies the spirit of Star Trek, a spirit which was gone when she was dumped from the series.

As for Lien, she was brilliant when she was given the chance to stand under the brightest spotlight.

As for Harry Kim, it's all about bad writing. Compare with the Voyager books from seasons 1-3 where he's actually doing something, even if he has the bad habit to be badly injured now and then.

"Elfin boy"? Do you consider Tasha Yar, Kira, Ezri Dax and T'Pol as "elfin boys" as well? maybe it's time to buy glasses or lenses.

As for Kes, she isn't weak or helpless. She has the guts to solve the difficult situations she face without help.

 

what is the key component missing from those books vs the show?

The actor. "The writers" are an easy target. People are less inclined to criticize the actors, but the actors can make or break either a good or a bad script. Also, if an actor continually gives performances that the producers and directors are unsatisfied with, they will be shuffled to a place where they can better contribute, such as a more supporting role.

 

She was so good... they got rid of her? I'm sorry, but to me, the character was a very boring, helpless, little elfin boy. You can talk all about how great you think she was, but I know ,and maybe you know too that she would have never been able to carry the story lines that Seven did. Kes seemed to be a glorified extra. I think the character was inferior, and the actress was inferior. I'm thinking of the episode where seven had all those flashbacks. Jeri nailed it. I Imagine Jennifer Lein in a similar role. Could she pull it off? No, sorry. Jeri Ryan was ten times the actress.

It's pointless to argue that expanding Kes' role would have improved ratings, or that the character or story lines would have improved. I can tell that you like her, but if there was something there, she would have been kept on. She was ultimately judged the most expendable character, because she was.

And yes, Denise Crosby did Star Trek a favor by quitting. Ezri Dax? Really?

 

A parody of what?

 

Ok, I see now. This isn't parody.

 

If WOMEN wanted to see men in a skin tight crotch hugging bodysuit as much as MEN wanted to see women in a skin tight body suit, then we would certainly see that.

 

He is apparently, a bungling fool.

 

I think the irony of this episode is lost on many people.

 

I am sorry but I have more interesting things to do than quibbling over minutia.

 

Kes in "Warlord" IMO, was a great episode. If they made that into a small movie, I could watch it all day.

 

Not to rain on your parade but it was a good episode definitely, great maybe, maybe not. However, they stretched the whole thing for as long as could be made interesting, any longer and it would have included boring parts.

 

Ironically, I think the inferiority was supposed to be the point with the Kazon. They are only threat because Voyager is one ship on its own. In the Alpha or Beta Quadrants, they would have been eaten up by the bigger aggressive powers. On the far edge of the Delta Quadrant, Voyager has trouble because it’s one ship on its own. The concept gets pushed further down in the mix, but the Kazon are more street gang than superpower, and that was supposed to be the point.

 

Plus we know that they've stolen their technology, they never built anything on their own. It's a wonder they can even fly those ships. Well, If the Packleds can then even a chimp can.

 

They got rid of her because the show was run by sex-obsessed fools.
And their first plan was to dump Kim, not Kes but when a silly inside poll in a silly magazine showed Gattert Wang among "the 50 most handsome", they dumped Kes instead.

As for Seven, she was the producers and writers obsession. It wouldn't have mattered if they had hired someone with the same "attributes" as Ryan but with lesser skill, they would still have made Seven the star, just because they wanted a the sex object who would attract teenage boys to watch Voyager.

As for Lien, she was brilliant when she was given the chance. I'm sure that she could have been as good as Ryan if she had remained in the show.

As for Denise Crosby and Nicole DeBoer, I find them great actors who did a good job. Why are you so critical when it comes to them? Do you dislike them because of their hairstyles or because they weren't wearing a catsuit?