Star Trek is great at papering over things though. Or flat out ignoring them.
Predictably.
Spoilers Hopes for the Third Season??
- Thread starter HaventGotALife
- Start date
To be fair, wiki counts one of the male characters twice (as main character ash tyler and 'recurring' character voq), and there is more to the question than just who is officially a main character, since 'recurring' character Spock left several main characters in the dust this season. Personally I'd say 'Recurring' characters Cornwell and L'Rell also outshone at least one main character last season, too (Culber). And there's no denying that Burnham is very much a lead character, not an ensemble character - which Trek hasn't really had since TOS.
Having said all that, however, I have to agree that for all the promotion and interviews that were done about how DSC would truly respect and embody diversity in a way that Trek hadn't done before, my initial reaction on seeing the show was they didn't go anywhere near as far as they said they were going to (and really only barely went further than other Treks had already) and it was all very disappointing in that regard. And the general make-up of the show's demographics haven't significantly changed since then.
We can talk about a truly female dominated show when the season long 'guest' spot(s) goes to a woman(women) and Tilly doesn't get shunted to the background and Nhan or Reno or Detmer or Owosekun (or all of the above) actually get real parts - and even then, only if all of this isn't compensated by roughly equivalent developments for the male characters.
I’m looking forward to seeing new ship designs!
Seven of Nine.
Still not the same that I recall. Though closer than most.
Michelle Yeoh really gets a short shrift from some people. Seriously. IMO, A "truly female dominated show" doesn't respect or embody diversity any more than a male dominated one.
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1) I have no idea what Michelle Yeoh getting short shrift from some people has to do with the post you quoted. Though as an aside, I would've enjoyed Discovery much more than I have if it were a show about the USS Shenzhou as shown in the pilot, and that show would also I think have done somewhat better at living up to the showrunners' claims about diversity.
2) I never said the mere act of making a show female dominated would be the embodiment of diversity. I said the showrunners made a claim that the show doesn't live up to, because its diversity is only barely more noticeable than the average Trek. That is also not just a question of character genders - I only made further remarks about gender in particular because that's the specific aspect of diversity that this conversation is about.
3) Having only female dominated shows in perpetuity would be extremely bad for diversity. Having some female dominated shows in a field massively overrun by male-dominated shows can only be good for and respectful to diversity. The ideal is not 50/50 gender split for every show - it's to have shows that are allowed to be 60, 75 or 90% female (which are still fairly rare and have never yet existed in Star Trek in particular) just as often as other shows are allowed to be 60, 75 or 90% male (which are still extremely common).
It's okay, Alex Peters is still making Axanar. I doubt they'll have more than a single woman involved and they're killing off their POC Tony Todd too. You can even send them money to help support their efforts.
Discovery is vastly more diverse than any previous iteration of Trek, by a large margin. But yeah, its not 90% aimed at a particular portion of the audience. Like most shows I watch, there's something for most people in the audience to get the largest numbers of eyes and provide a dynamic between different characters not just focusing on a particular demographic. I don't think Star Trek is going to grow effectively in the short term by splitting its productions into niche products for particular portions of its audience.
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Those are main characters. And you know they are.
I'm talking about secondary characters: Owo (went on an away mission, scenes in the mess hall), Detmer (lots of development), Airiam (had an entire episode dedicated to her) vs Brys and Rhys (literally nothing.)
Two wrongs don't make a right. Why not have a balance?
Why count people like Kol, Mudd and Voq when you should be counting characters that arent on that Wiki page like...
Owo, Detmer, Airiam, Dr Pollard, Amanda, Number One, most of the Enterprise bridge....?
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Am I missing something? I distinctly remember Detmer and Owo routinely being called bridge furniture on this very site.
Somehow I'm not surprised in the least how, upon being pointed out how the main cast is majority male, the goalposts immediately get moved to include mandatory-line supporting characters and even single-appearance uncredited extras.
What wrong? Other shows were made in a time where a male dominated cast was the norm. Now, more female oriented casts draw viewers. Just capitalism at work.
Proof sexism still exists and not just in the '60s, '70s, '80s, or '90s.
Star Trek (2009) --> Main Cast: 6 male / 1 female --> Not a peep.
Star Trek: Discovery Season 2 --> Main/Recurring Cast: 14 female / 11 male --> "Women are taking over!!!!!"
Hypothetical Situation --> Main Cast: 6 female / 1 male --> Nuclear Meltdown!!!
The character list for Season 2? Here it is below. Cast who appear in the opening credits are bolded.
Female
1. Burnham
2. Tilly
3. Georgiou
4. Cornwell
5. Amanda
6. Detmer
7. Owosekun
8. Airiam (replaced by Nillson, keeping the gender composition the same)
9. Nhan
10. Reno
11. Pollard
12. L'Rell
13. Number One
14. Siranna
Male
1. Pike
2. Saru
3. Stamets
4. Culber
5. Tyler
6. Spock
7. Leland
8. Sarek
9. Rhys
10. Bryce
11. Linus
The cast composition is more or less half-and-half (56% female, 44% male) but the front credits are still mostly male.
Star Trek (2009) --> Main Cast: 6 male / 1 female --> Not a peep.
Star Trek: Discovery Season 2 --> Main/Recurring Cast: 14 female / 11 male --> "Women are taking over!!!!!"
Hypothetical Situation --> Main Cast: 6 female / 1 male --> Nuclear Meltdown!!!
The character list for Season 2? Here it is below. Cast who appear in the opening credits are bolded.
Female
1. Burnham
2. Tilly
3. Georgiou
4. Cornwell
5. Amanda
6. Detmer
7. Owosekun
8. Airiam (replaced by Nillson, keeping the gender composition the same)
9. Nhan
10. Reno
11. Pollard
12. L'Rell
13. Number One
14. Siranna
Male
1. Pike
2. Saru
3. Stamets
4. Culber
5. Tyler
6. Spock
7. Leland
8. Sarek
9. Rhys
10. Bryce
11. Linus
The cast composition is more or less half-and-half (56% female, 44% male) but the front credits are still mostly male.
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I’m looking forward to seeing new ship designs!
What would be more brave is to have no ships whatsoever. Technology has reached the point where ships, or at least the 'physicality' of a ship, a 'vessel', is completely superfluous.
That doesn't make the show "female dominated" and I suspect you know that.
As many have pointed out the cast is fairly balanced, with many male characters getting quite a bit of development. So, no, I don't see the issue, and even if there are more females on this show I am failing to see the problem.
With the BurnhamSuperSuit, they already are!
I'm not sure I could get into a Star Trek that wasn't dependent on ships to move the characters around. They are characters in their own right.
I’m looking forward to seeing new ship designs!
And hopefully not designed by John Eaves.
Hopefully not as ugly as the Discovery.
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