Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[Alan Roi]

Honestly, they could have kept almost everything the same and "fixed it" very easily. You move the shot of the turbolift closing to before the explosion goes off.

Of course, they wanted the shot of Pike's POV looking through the hull rupture out into space so logic doesn't enter into it.

Again, though. Blast Doors. Designed to, as I mentioned. Stop Blasts. Why would such doors not do the job they are designed to do?

 

[Mechanoid1]

I still don't understand why, when writing the term, 'Blast Doors' some people still don't get the concept of the term 'Blast Door', and insist that this Blast Door shouldn't be capable of stopping.... a blast, despite the fact that is the first word in this particular door's description.

Too bad the entire ship isnt made out of the same material the BLAST door is made of

 

[Dales]

finally watched it. I gave it a 6.

so this is why they dont mention michael burnham? got to admit it is a bit too easy and disappointing. all of them are sworn to secrecy. that should not really stop spock from mentioning he had a sister. he doesn't have to say what his sister did or tell people she ever served with star fleet.

I still hate how she was the red angel afterall, I used to like star trek for compelling story lines but this was as derivate as you can get

the final scene made me want to watch pike/spock/number 1 than episode 3 of the star trek discovery crew

I am guessing spock got the last signal although I am not too sure.

overall the story was pretty weak sucked up by non stop CGI action.

 

[Alan Roi]

When was that established? Killing Leland disabled all the s31 fleet.

If there were backups, they weren't nearby. Certainly gave them at the very least time to regroup, get the shields back up, and evacuate their wounded.


Well yes, quite. We are presented with a ship on the verge of being destroyed. It stretches credibility that they couldn't finish the job. Tractor it into a star, anything. It's an absurd plot point that they couldn't come up with a method of scuttling the ship.


Possible, but a couple of episodes back it took some time for the data to transfer, I think the risk there is pretty low. At the very least you're no worse off from trying, and if you're successful, don't have to send the entire Discovery crew, wounded and all, off to the future and an uncertain fate.

Because, as a rancher from Montana would say, "You don't change horses midstream."

 

[Alan Roi]

Too bad the entire ship isnt made out of the same material the BLAST door is made of

That material is probably either to difficult to mas construct, ridiculously dense and/or would probably make the ship unweildly to fly or go into warp if it was.

 

[cultcross]

Because, as a rancher from Montana would say, "You don't change horses midstream."

A maxim that in no way applied here. Cracking on with a desperate plan just because you've planned it, even though circumstances have changed, is the sort of thing very poor leaders do (not looking at any Theresa Mays in particular). We've seen both Pike and Saru show much better leadership this season.

 

[Alan Roi]

What I found odd about Cornwell‘s sacrifice and the discussion with Pike preceding it was that it was unclear to me why he wouldn‘t be the one staying behind to close the door since from his Time Crystal vision he knew he wouldn‘t be dying there and then. The dialog even seems to reference his future vision, which makes it even more odd. Does he trust the vision or not?

Pike as been compelled to attempt to sacrifice himself on a regular basis this season, before even he heard the term 'time crystal'. Its just what he does and who he is. A bit hard to suddely turn around and change the fundamental bedrock of who you are.

 

[Mechanoid1]

That material is probably either to difficult to mas construct, ridiculously dense and/or would probably make the ship unweildly to fly or go into warp if it was.

Darn those laws of physics.

 

[Alan Roi]

A maxim that in no way applied here. Cracking on with a desperate plan just because you've planned it, even though circumstances have changed, is the sort of thing very poor leaders do (not looking at any Theresa Mays in particular). We've seen both Pike and Saru show much better leadership this season.

And we've also seen them carry on even though it wound't be prudent, from the audience's perspective to do so as well. And since that is the case, you can't say continuing with the mission is out of character. As far as I remember Pike and Saru changed plans this season when the original plan (like Brexit) appeared to have FAILED not when in appeared to have SUCCEEDED. Even so, go back to Kaminar and watch both Saru and Pike even continue when the original plan appeared to have even failed. Precedence sets character. It is the repeated BREAKING of such precedence that creates inconsistency, and something that is worth complaining about.

 

[serabine]

Most of the Trek series have had “badass” ladies though. Just seemed like a odd thing to highlight.

I didn't say Star Trek didn't have them, I said that most media (including Trek) don't have that many even if they have them.

Made a few lists just now, and previous shows had at most three women in the main cast compared to five to six men. Often, even if a show gained a new character (Ezri and Seven) it replaced a character lost (Jadziah and Kes), if there even was a replacement (Yar). So there's more chances for men being badass than for women just by sheer numbers.

If you look at this season finale you have Burnham, Georgiou, Tilly, Cornwell, Number One, Reno, and Nahn doing their thing, then L'Rell and Siranna show up with the cavalry. Detmer and Owosokun are there doing their thing, and Dr Pollard is keeping up in medbay. Plus a lot of female extras. That's so many female characters. So. Many. It's a cornucopia.

So, if you're a woman, and you grew up with media that has "the" girl, or maybe two who Betty -and-Veronica- over the male lead, or fulfill tomboy/girly girl and madonna/whore schemata, or simply just so that the female hero has someone female to fight. Or you grew up with damsels and pseudo kick-ass women who were actually damsels, or the "exceptional" women who are "not like the other girls" because they grew up with 35 brothers. Then, yeah, you take note when something is different.

I get female scientists, and commanding officers, doctors, and engineers, admirals, and chancellors of star empires, pilots, and kung fu fighting, dimension hopping former empresses-turned-spies. In the same episode.

If you're used to eating gruel all your life and if you're lucky there's occasionally a bit of meat and some spice to it, and then you're showing up to the table one day and are presented with a feast-day spread it's not strange or "odd" to notice it and delight in it. It's frankly only natural.

Also, it says more about what fare you are used to and how for granted you take it that you think someone taking note of something like this is odd.

 

[Alan Roi]

Una is actually her middle name. She doesn't have a first or last name.

So then, like Madonna? Cher? Sting?

 

[cultcross]

What I found odd about Cornwell‘s sacrifice and the discussion with Pike preceding it was that it was unclear to me why he wouldn‘t be the one staying behind to close the door since from his Time Crystal vision he knew he wouldn‘t be dying there and then. The dialog even seems to reference his future vision, which makes it even more odd. Does he trust the vision or not?

I will defend that part - the point of that scene is that his fate isn't set in stone because of mystical properties of the time crystal, but as many here already speculated, because of the man he is. He knew it was stupid to sacrifice himself rather than command his ship, and Cornwell reminded him of that in her own way. Yes he has seen a different ending for himself, but that doesn't make him invincible, it just predicts his choices. Correctly, as it turns out. I quite liked that scene.

 

[oberth]

`

That material is probably either to difficult to mas construct, ridiculously dense and/or would probably make the ship unweildly to fly or go into warp if it was.

so why didn't that blast go around the blastdoor and pulverize the 'wall' then?

that door is a plothole you can drive a vogon construction fleet through - as it's clearly in the ship they could just have beamed her out no shield interference at all) after she used that handle.

guess they needed a dead hero

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Too bad the entire ship isnt made out of the sam

Again, though. Blast Doors. Designed to, as I mentioned. Stop Blasts. Why would such doors not do the job they are designed to do?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the blast doors were most likely designed to prevent explosions from EPS conduits and hull breaches and not explosions from torpedoes that can BLOW UP A QUARTER OF THE SAUCER SECTION.

Also the explosion created a shockwave powerful enough to rock discovery and shake the crew of the Enterprise, but Pike somehow maintains his balance and watches the Admiral get vaped.

I enjoyed the finale immensely but this was dumb.

 

[Alan Roi]

`

so why didn't that blast go around the blastdoor and pulverize the 'wall' then?

What idiot puts a blast door on a wall that cannot handle a blast? Clearly that particular ring wall was made of the same material or tougher, just wasn't openable.

And Pike needed to be reminded that just because he'd seen his future he wasn't supposed to act like an idiot. Mind you, he wasn't going to stop Cornwell because the man admires self sacrifice more than just any other concept, as we have seen repeatedly this year.

 

[Gonzo]

A maxim that in no way applied here. Cracking on with a desperate plan just because you've planned it, even though circumstances have changed, is the sort of thing very poor leaders do (not looking at any Theresa Mays in particular). We've seen both Pike and Saru show much better leadership this season.

My take on it is that the causality loop isnt actually resolved yet, they have to go into the future to ensure that the probe is sent back as that has still not been dealt with.

Its highly likely that Control isnt quite as finished as we were led to believe, disabled yes, dormant yes but not dead and its still in the spore room as Discovery goes to the future.

Essentially the present is now safe but the future is still up for grabs, that is probably why we were not shown Burnham or Discovery at their destination.

 

[oberth]

What idiot puts a blast door on a wall that cannot handle a blast? Clearly that particular ring wall was made of the same material or tougher, just wasn't openable..

the same idiot that puts a bridge on top of a saucer section in the first place

 

[Alan Roi]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the blast doors were most likely designed to prevent explosions from EPS conduits and hull breaches and not explosions from torpedoes that can BLOW UP A QUARTER OF THE SAUCER SECTION.

Also the explosion created a shockwave powerful enough to rock discovery and shake the crew of the Enterprise, but Pike somehow maintains his balance and watches the Admiral get vaped.

I enjoyed the finale immensely but this was dumb.

All structures we build are comprised of stronger and weaker components. But if you want to get from one part of the structure to another you still have to get there, hence having a door that is made of the same material as the toughest part of the structure. Seems obvious to me. And we have seen many times how ships survive hits by photon torpedos even with their shields down (although they are often severly damaged.) time and time again. How is that possible? Shouldn't, by your view, every ship be instantly vaporized by a torpedo?

 

[cultcross]

My take on it is that the causality loop isnt actually resolved yet, they have to go into the future to ensure that the probe is sent back as that has still not been dealt with

I'm fairly sure they won't deal with it - Paradise is saying the plot is finished. "Control is neutralised" was the phrase I think. The sentinel will likely remain a mystery.

 

[Alan Roi]

the same idiot that puts a bridge on top of a saucer section in the first place

I expect the material around the bridge is made of the same material blast doors are made of.