Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[Alan Roi]

Another thing that I think people have overlooked is that Airiam got infected by a Control that was from 500 years in the future. But how much of sentient control could have made the journey from the future into equipment that's half a millenium less advanced. I see it as Its kind of like trying to fit Windows 10 into a 8086. Its clearly got some protocols running, such as 'get the sphere data' and 'remove Burnham from the equation' but like Nomad, is it really capable of effectively distinguishing Michael from her mom? Does the merging of 23rd and 28th century Control really work the way 28th century Control wanted, just like Nomad didn't end up working properly when it was merged with the alien probe it connected with and mistook Kirk for Roykirk?

 

[Alan Roi]

Does anyone know how long this episode is going to be. I wouldn't mind a 90 minute finale.

It's going to be longer. Space in Canada is listing it as 1:30 minutes, which means it likely will be somewhere around 60-70 minutes in actual length.

 

[Gonzo]

Doesn't fix the future however in any way I can think of, which is the problem, as we've seen, and again, perhaps makes things worse. Dr. Burnham try everything she can think of to do so and nothing worked. Allowing Control, however, to come back into the past may be what changes things, as in City on the Edge of Forever.

Thats because she did not realise what the core of the issue is, she doesnt realise that its Burnham herself that is as much the nexus of events as Control is.

It could have originally been a simple matter of Predestination that has become something far more complex due to Dr Burnhams attempts to stop Control and ensure her daughters safety, causing Control to then also make changes like sending the probe back in time and targeting Burnham.

That is what really screwed things up and yet none of this could have happened without that probe, perhaps Control knew exactly what it was doing when it sent the probe and it wasnt just to secure the data earlier.

If Control had not sent that probe into the past and Dr Burnham had not intervened the matter would be a much simpler one, yet if that was so they would have no idea there was a problem at all until its too late.

Like I said its a causality loop and its stuck with Control in a winning position, it has to be freed in such a way as that changes but there will be consequences when it is.

The anomalies are going to end up being Burnhams attempt at collapsing the loop while understanding the consequences or trying to collapse it without a reset hence why we havent been shown all of them yet.

Dr Burnham started all this but now it almost has a life of its own and has grown beyond her ability to resolve it, which is why she was always doomed to fail.

 

[Gonzo]

Another thing that I think people have overlooked is that Airiam got infected by a Control that was from 500 years in the future. But how much of sentient control could have made the journey from the future into equipment that's half a millenium less advanced. I see it as Its kind of like trying to fit Windows 10 into a 8086. Its clearly got some protocols running, such as 'get the sphere data' and 'remove Burnham from the equation' but like Nomad, is it really capable of effectively distinguishing Michael from her mom? Does the merging of 23rd and 28th century Control really work the way 28th century Control wanted, just like Nomad didn't end up working properly when it was merged with the alien probe it connected with and mistook Kirk for Roykirk?

I dont think an advanced AI would have a problem with older technology, even if it did have difficulty it could just as easily use brute force and it overpowered Airiam in no time at all.

 

[Alan Roi]

Thats because she did not realise what the core of the issue is, she doesnt realise that its Burnham herself that is as much the nexus of events as Control is.

It could have originally been a simple matter of Predestination that has become something far more complex due to Dr Burnhams attempts to stop Control and ensure her daughters safety, causing Control to then also make changes like sending the probe back in time and targeting Burnham.

That is what really screwed things up and yet none of this could have happened without that probe, perhaps Control knew exactly what it was doing when it sent the probe and it wasnt just to secure the data earlier.

If Control had not sent that probe into the past and Dr Burnham had not intervened the matter would be a much simpler one, yet if that was so they would have no idea there was a problem at all until its too late.

Like I said its a causality loop and its stuck with Control in a winning position, it has to be freed in such a way as that changes but there will be consequences when it is.

The anomalies are going to end up being Burnhams attempt at collapsing the loop while understanding the consequences or trying to collapse it without a reset hence why we havent been shown all of them yet.

Dr Burnham started all this but now it almost has a life of its own and has grown beyond her ability to resolve it, which is why she was always doomed to fail.

Well we have opposite views here. I think that Michael's purpose has been to have Control come to the past and mess things up by trying to jump start itself too early with only fragments of its 500 year more advanced AI capabilities: see The Changeling, yeah, the alien probe that merged with the far more primitive Nomad, and made it a lot more powerful, but created some unexpected flaws and vulnerabilities in Nomad's programming. So I think Burnham's goal will be to preserve that incursion.

 

[Lord Garth]

It's going to be longer. Space in Canada is listing it as 1:30 minutes, which means it likely will be somewhere around 60-70 minutes in actual length.

Good.

 

[Quinton]

It's going to be longer. Space in Canada is listing it as 1:30 minutes, which means it likely will be somewhere around 60-70 minutes in actual length.

Excellent news. I’ll take all the Trek I can get until the long night begins and doesn’t end until the Picard show premieres in several months.

Spoiler: Pseudo-spoiler

LOL @ a “long night” for this franchise only lasting several months, though. 2005-2016 is over. We are actually getting regular doses again. Prophets bless us. So say we all.

 

[Gonzo]

Well we have opposite views here. I think that Michael's purpose has been to have Control come to the past and mess things up by trying to jump start itself too early with only fragments of its 500 year more advanced AI capabilities: see The Changeling, yeah, the alien probe that merged with the far more primitive Nomad, and made it a lot more powerful, but created some unexpected flaws and vulnerabilities in Nomad's programming. So I think Burnham's goal will be to preserve that incursion.

It could be Burnhams actions that force Control into sending that probe but that would mean the plan didnt work and Control still exists in the future when Burnham gets there in spite of her taking the data out of its reach, the question then would be what kind of state is the galaxy in then, how much of an effect on the future will Control have when it only has access to 50% of the data.

It doesnt work though because Control has to be stopped right now in the present, no ifs or butts it has to be stopped in the here and now.

Or Control needs to be sent to the future with Burnham and the fight will continue whenever and wherever Burnham ends up as it cant stay in the present, unfortunately that would also cause changes as the version in the future would not be the version of Control with 100% of the data that sent the probe back, it could perhaps trigger a much smaller reset than it otherwise would though.

Causality loops are a bitch for a reason.

 

[SJGardner]

It's weird how my feelings in anticipation for today's episode are both the same as last year and the opposite at the same time... a great deal of reset button-induced anxiety. But with Will You Take My Hand? I was anxious because I was convinced we were heading into one, now it's more like an ongoing mantra of "please don't be it, please don't be it...", mixed together with lots of excitement because I have no clue at all what's going to happen and I absolutely love this.

My only annoyance is I have to go to work tomorrow despite Good Friday being a bank holiday here, because now I'll have to wait until the evening to watch it. Great Maker, this is gonna be a tense day and it's only a few minutes after midnight...

 

[Alan Roi]

It could be Burnhams actions that force Control into sending that probe but that would mean the plan didnt work and Control still exists in the future when Burnham gets there in spite of her taking the data out of its reach, the question then would be what kind of state is the galaxy in then, how much of an effect on the future will Control have when it only has access to 50% of the data.

It doesnt work though because Control has to be stopped right now in the present, no ifs or butts it has to be stopped in the here and now.

Or Control needs to be sent to the future with Burnham and the fight will continue whenever and wherever Burnham ends up as it cant stay in the present, unfortunately that would also cause changes as the version in the future would not be the version of Control with 100% of the data that sent the probe back, it could perhaps trigger a much smaller reset than it otherwise would though.

Causality loops are a bitch for a reason.

All McCoy had to do was save Edith Keeler and the entire future he came from was wiped from existence or the landing party was stuck in an alternate timeline, take your pick. Kirk and Spock were lucky that Nazi's or future resistance from the future McCoy inadvertent created didn't figure out he was from a different future, invent their own time machine and head back to protect/identify Keeler from the potential threat of Kirk and Spock to preserve/fix their future. Could have gotten very messy. For fun related to that concept see: Jame P. Hogan's The Proteus Operation.

 

[Krandor]

Really excited for tonight. I still wish we'd get some "2 hour movie events", ala Voyager, and that they just gave us a week break last week and combined the two tonight. Really miss those "tele-movies, something Voyager did very right.

Space has it in a 90 minute block with commercials so sounds like we are going to be close to them.
I'm expecting 60-70 minutes no commercials. Not quite a 2 hour event but not that far off.

 

[Krandor]

I'm expecting a bit of something like B4 from B5. We had 2 eps with B4.. one in present and one that was the "other side" of wha happened. I'm expecting this ep to be the flip side of some of what we've seen this season. DSC goes to future early and we see things like why the squid probe was sent... the sending of the signals... etc. all the stuff that ties up all the things we have seen so we can go back and watch season 2 and some things will be "now that makes sense" when we see the other side.

Now I don't expect them to do as well as JMS only because the B4 arc was a masterpiece.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I'm expecting a bit of something like B4 from B5. We had 2 eps with B4.. one in present and one that was the "other side" of wha happened. I'm expecting this ep to be the flip side of some of what we've seen this season. DSC goes to future early and we see things like why the squid probe was sent... the sending of the signals... etc. all the stuff that ties up all the things we have seen so we can go back and watch season 2 and some things will be "now that makes sense" when we see the other side.

Now I don't expect them to do as well as JMS only because the B4 arc was a masterpiece.

Totally thought you meant B4, the doofy android.

 

[Krandor]

Totally thought you meant B4, the doofy android.

LOL! Sorry.. Meant Babylon 4 from Babylon 5.

 

[Krandor]

CBS.... it's ok to go on and put the episode up now.

 

[SJGardner]

I'm expecting a bit of something like B4 from B5. We had 2 eps with B4.. one in present and one that was the "other side" of wha happened. I'm expecting this ep to be the flip side of some of what we've seen this season. DSC goes to future early and we see things like why the squid probe was sent... the sending of the signals... etc. all the stuff that ties up all the things we have seen so we can go back and watch season 2 and some things will be "now that makes sense" when we see the other side.

Now I don't expect them to do as well as JMS only because the B4 arc was a masterpiece.

Now I can only imagine the last lines of Season 2 going:
[Insert main character here], greeting a pair of Vulcans on Discovery's bridge 1000 years in the past: "I welcome you, and present this vessel to you as a gift. I am called... Surak. And we have much work ahead of us."

 

[Cyrus]

After this evening, I'll say goodbye to CBSAA again for a while. LOL

I believe we are getting 2 more Short Treks in the next few weeks. There is probably going to be one next week to prevent the mass cancellations.

 

[Tuskin38]

I believe we are getting 2 more Short Treks in the next few weeks. There is probably going to be one next week to prevent the mass cancellations.

M-A says there is one next week and one after that.

 

[ITDUDE]

M-A says there is one next week and one after that.

Waah? What? That’s cool!
Where do you news about new short treks?!

 

[Vger23]

Another prediction: a torpedo gets stuck in the Enterprise saucer section. Maybe Spock has to stay behind (when Dicovery goes to future) to fix that.

My prediction is that Discovery is being used as bait by the Federation to get all of Control's resources in one place so its threat can be taken care of with minimal losses, especially as the Klingons, eager to test out their new ships are looking for a good fight and don't care if they suffer a few losses. Win-win for the Federation (as they are likely hoping this situation gets rid of the spore drive whose operation violates at least one major statute regarding genetically enhancing people.)

Preditions:

1. Control will turn out to be the Borg origins in the final five minutes of the episodes, not earlier
2. The "jump to the future" of the main ship and the crew that said goodbye will happen and work as a teaser for the next season (like the appereance of the TOS Enterprie last season). Spock will be neatly left behing for Pike's Enterprise, Georgiou will come with into the future.
   
3. Burnham in the red angel suit will get seperated from the Discovery and her crew - during that time, she will travel back and create all the red signals and paradoxes (melding with Spock, being recognised as Burnham)
4. Burnham will have a plan how to get the Discovery into the future, but the crew back into the present. This plan will go wrong, and they will all be stranded in the future in the end.
   
5. Somehow, the Discovery will stay for a thousand years unattended in a nebula, with the sphere data bcoming "Zora", only to be re-boarded by Burnham and the crew in the end.

Biggest fear:

• This finale has A LOT of ground to cover. Much like last season, they pretty much left all major mysteries and plot threads hanging up until the final episode. I fear this episode will be crammed to the fullest as well, and many eplanations/plot developments will feel cut short (like that bomb that was supposed to destroy Kronos), only to neatly tidy up all plot threads in such a limited amount of time

Looking forward to:

• Big, dumb space battles with sparkling bridge consoles. It was a good choice of the producers to hold them back this season - this makes them actually happening more meaningfull
• Whatever they do with the Enterprise, Pike, Spock & Nr. One. I suspect them all being left in place as a backdoor pilot.

Yes, yes...but MY prediction????