Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x12 - "Through the Valley of Shadows"

[ISS_Einstein]

God what an absolutely horrible episode. It contained almost everything bad about DSC. Some features of note:

- Incomprehensible fortune cookie dialogue in place of adult communication

- Everyone speaks like "I feel in my heart that the solution lies in our destiny"

- Or "my destiny is to use warmth to conquer the unknown paths of fate"

- (I strung the above sentence together by placing random words in a sentence)

- Science being treated as high fantasy plot device to service badly-conceived emotion-wank

- Everyone believes they see predestination everywhere; they are all 6th century BCE mystics

- Things happen to serve the writer's plot, rather than developing logically out of the story

- "That is who I am", "you are angry / no, I'm enraged", "your destiny will be locked in place"

Serious question: are some of the writers part of a fundamentalist cult? Who fucking speaks like this? Aum Shinrikyo?

I just can't understand how anyone can enjoy this stuff. It is literally cringe inducing. A pulpy show like Arrow or Supergirl, which are not the pinnacle of genre entertainment, are more grounded and enjoyable than this. I watch an episode which is semi-decent like Brother then tune in next week and am physically repulsed by the levels of shlock dialogue.

Take this line:

L'rell "How did you speak to our son."

Pike, hesitant "I couldn't even begin to explain."

I can fucking explain in less than ten words - 'he grew up faster and is an adult now'. I really wish I was over-reacting, that this was some kind of Last Jedi style fan hyperbole, but one in every 3 episodes is just objectively terrible. Star Trek is in the control of amateurs.

 

[Noname Given]

They'll need an initial Borg, so far they have control and a couple of grey-goo filled automatons, not Borg.
maybe they start with a Queen.

someone who already has an ocular implant.

someone they've taken time to show more interaction with the rest of the crew lately.

goodbye Detmer.

(Actually, I could live with that )

 

[BillJ]

- Science being treated as high fantasy plot device to service badly-conceived emotion-wank

So, Star Trek?

 

[cooleddie74]

-Those were the most Klingon Klingons since STID.
-Pike's vision of his future is one of the creepiest moments in modern Trek history.
-Control is getting dull and obnoxious fast. Please wrap all of this up as neatly as possible.
-The Enterprise bridge is...well...one of the best sets this series has yet given us.

 

[BillJ]

-Those were the most Klingon Klingons since STID.
-Pike's vision of his future is one of the creepiest moments in modern Trek history.
-Control is getting dull and obnoxious fast. Please wrap all of this up as neatly as possible.

Agree.

-The Enterprise bridge is...well...one of the best sets this series has yet given us.

Disagree. Those bridge chairs stick out like a Pinto at a Tesla convention.

 

[cooleddie74]

On the other hand at least Elon is acknowledging Pintos exist.

 

[XCV330]

- Everyone believes they see predestination everywhere; they are all 6th century BCE mystics

If the universe is holographic, or if time is a tableau rather than some series of linked events, then causation is just one's perceptions way to make sense of that, and free will is a convenience of going about what you were going to do anyway.It has nothing to do with whatever you are referring to in 500'ish BCE.

 

[BillJ]

On the other hand at least Elon is acknowledging Pintos exist.

I think the bridge of the Enterprise is the show wrapped up in a nutshell. It is trying to have it both ways and seems off kilter because of it.

 

[Nyotarules]

I wouldn't expect Klingons on Boreth to act like the types of Klingons we normally see on Discovery. They're not soldiers. These Klingons are more spiritual.

In Star Trek only humans are allowed to be diverse, all Vulcans are scientists or diplomats, all Klingons are soldiers and all Andorians are like Shran.

There's no reason for Pike to keep quiet about what he's seen. At all.

It would have been better if, after L'Rell and Tyler ask Pike what he sacrificed, he said, "I don't remember, but I think it was something important." That would have worked with canon better.

Great idea, a shame the writers did not think of that, it could be a side effect of the time crystals experience, once the visitor leave the chamber, memory of the vision is lost.

People can change in 3 years and Pike's issue was with losing people. You seriously think he would be able to walk away from Starfleet knowing that if he does a heap of cadets are going to die?

Why should they die? Whoever is in charge of the training will save them and might come up with a better rescue plan. Pike knows an accident will happen, just prevent the accident from happening, it's what Captain Kirk 'I don't accept fate/or no win set ups' would do. Pike is being fatalistic about himself.

I'm not sure its any crazier than the Talosians being able to broadcast real time illusions across light years of space. Honestly, if they can do that a good chunk of the crapola in Trek can be explained by Talosians just entertaining themselves..

Final scene of the last Star Trek ever to be broadcast
Talosian 1 - "Well, that was entertaining"
Talosian 2 - "Did you have to include lens flares, in the illusion?"

I've yet to see anyone make the messianic connection in the episode. Pike entering the time crystal chamber is similar to Christ's night of agony in the garden of Gethsemane.

Pike like Christ must accept the horrific fate that awaits him to save the greater good.

And Christ came back from the dead, Pike ends up in a beep chair cos of continuity/production reasons...

 

[Tuskin38]

Everyone believes they see predestination everywhere; they are all 6th century BCE mystics

Predestination has been done before in Trek.

 

[BillJ]

I do think the Klingons were probably the most interesting they've been in Discovery.

 

[matthunter]

If Detmer were the Borg Queen, I and probably 60% of the human species would accept assimilation willingly. Minimum.

 

[cooleddie74]

I did notice they moved the rows of blinking indicator lights to the tops of each bridge station. Is that because 1.) the production designers had to change things anyways and 2.) their thought was: "What do these blinking indicator lights even mean and how do the crew read them? Let's move them up to the top of each station and out of direct eye level so the bridge crew can look at actual display monitors"?

There was a way to leave them at eye level and still have them display more than just blinking lights but apparently they didn't want to go that route. Oh well.

 

[Yistaan]

Discovery's next season will involve an insane plan of recreating the accident that left Stamets trapped between the mycelial network and the prime universe, then have him grab wheelchair Pike on Talos 4 while other crew members kill him, then transporting to the mycelial network and using Pike's DNA and energy from dark matter to recreate a new healthy prime universe body for him.

 

[Noname Given]

Discovery's next season will involve an insane plan of recreating the accident that left Stamets trapped between the mycelial network and the prime universe, then have him grab wheelchair Pike on Talos 4 while other crew members kill him, then transporting to the mycelial network and using Pike's DNA and energy from dark matter to recreate a new healthy prime universe body for him.

^^^
Nah...too predictable.

 

[ISS_Einstein]

If the universe is holographic, or if time is a tableau rather than some series of linked events, then causation is just one's perceptions way to make sense of that, and free will is a convenience of going about what you were going to do anyway.It has nothing to do with whatever you are referring to in 500'ish BCE.

Treating time as a spacial dimension has nothing to do with how shit this show is - if you wanted to argue they are making a profound statement (as opposed to the reality: they are writing absolute shit), then you might as well abolish drama - since 'plot' and 'development' are illusions.

 

[Nyotarules]

Discovery's next season will involve an insane plan of recreating the accident that left Stamets trapped between the mycelial network and the prime universe, then have him grab wheelchair Pike on Talos 4 while other crew members kill him, then transporting to the mycelial network and using Pike's DNA and energy from dark matter to recreate a new healthy prime universe body for him.

He has to grab Vina as well, the great love of Pike's life as depicted in The Cage (right?)

 

[Doc Mugatu]

God what an absolutely horrible episode. It contained almost everything bad about DSC. … I just can't understand how anyone can enjoy this stuff. It is literally cringe inducing. … Star Trek is in the control of amateurs.

Well, then one can prescribe you 30cc's of "don't watch." No one wants you stroking out during an episode. CBS All Access has the original Hawaii 5-0, watch that.

 

[Yistaan]

^^^
Nah...too predictable.

Oh, but there's another idea! They'll go to the Mirror universe and kidnap Mirror Pike, tricking Mirror Kirk into thinking his assassination was successful.

Then, they will brutally wipe Mirror Pike's mind with a mind meld (or ask Nomad to do it), then use a Fal-Tor-Pan to transfer wheelchair Pike's mind to Mirror Pike ("What you seek has not been done since ages past, and then only in legend." actually defines ages as just a few years ago, and the legendary status is what they call classified events).

Pike will be back to normal except for light sensitivity now. He will just wear sunglasses all the time. Yeah they killed Mirror Pike to do it, but as a future Starfleet captain will say, "Because I can live with it. I can live with it. Computer, erase that entire personal log."

He has to grab Vina as well, the great love of Pike's life as depicted in The Cage (right?)

Well I suppose Stamets could be a conduit for 2 people passing through him into the mycelial network...

 

[matthunter]

Well I suppose Stamets could be a conduit for 2 people passing through him

Mirror Georgiou kinda implied that last ep.

... into the mycelial network...

Oh. Oh, right. Yeah, probably.