Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x12 - "Through the Valley of Shadows"

[Tim Thomason]

In another thread a couple weeks ago, a member posted their annoyance about time crystals (a real thing) being used as some magical mineral able to send you through time.

At the time, I suggested that the stabilized version of the crystal (something we can't achieve today) merely functioned as a siphon or necessary storage container for the unknown exotic material that does the actual time travelling. I saw nothing last week that conflicts with that idea.

But I take that back now. Time crystals ≠ time crystals. They *are* magical minerals afterall. Oh well.

 

[Sakonna]

Maybe I missed something, but why did they not just jump away at the end? In "New Eden" they jumped some Voyager-distance into the Beta Quadrant! I don't understand why they don't just jump away from the 31 ships and go hide in the corner of the galaxy somewhere.

No one on Discovery even seems to realize they have a Time Travel drive. Predictable/navigable or not, it's never even been mentioned again. Almost like it was purely plot-driven silliness that they arrived "too late" last season and no one could think of a way to make it happen through a motivation internal to the events themselves.

If I accidentally time-traveled and it caused millions of deaths, my first thought would surely be "hey, can that go both ways...?"

I could be wrong on this, but I thought we were to understand that the unique nature of that particular jump/trip is what caused the time travel. It did have a lot of different elements from usual, with the explosion on the Charon powering it, the catching the wave, all that.

Of course, even if that was the intent, Disco is certainly the show that would go back on it. Plenty of times we've been told something is definitely impossible, only for them to technobabble out of it minutes later.

 

[Vger23]

The first thing Picard did after All Good Things was tell everyone everything in the future. Despite the fact that doing so could very well undo the future timeline that ended the anomaly and saved humanity to begin with.

But it wasn't "The Future". It was some bullshit made up by Q.

Big difference.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Maybe I missed something, but why did they not just jump away at the end? In "New Eden" they jumped some Voyager-distance into the Beta Quadrant! I don't understand why they don't just jump away from the 31 ships and go hide in the corner of the galaxy somewhere.

I think it's partly because jumping takes a toll on Stamets and also they're focused on destroying the data, rather than hiding it. Jumping to another part of the galaxy would get it away from Control for now, but the data would still exist for when Control figures out a way to get to Discovery.

What I think is going to happen is the data or something will prevent Discovery from self-destructing so instead they make it seem like it self-destructed, for Control's benefit, and jump to the far future. Spock doesn't speak of his sister again because he has to pretend that she died just in case there's still a bit of Control somewhere. How Control gets destroyed though.... I have no idea. Maybe something to do with the red signals?

 

[XCV330]

I think it's partly because jumping takes a toll on Stamets and also they're focused on destroying the data, rather than hiding it. Jumping to another part of the galaxy would get it away from Control for now, but the data would still exist for when Control figures out a way to get to Discovery.

What I think is going to happen is the data or something will prevent Discovery from self-destructing so instead they make it seem like it self-destructed, for Control's benefit, and jump to the far future. Spock doesn't speak of his sister again because he has to pretend that she died just in case there's still a bit of Control somewhere. How Control gets destroyed though.... I have no idea. Maybe something to do with the red signals?

If this is truly a borg story, I could also imagine a future where some collision in the end forces an abandoned Discovery, sporting a new shuttle for some reason, to jump 1000 years from point-of-record in one direction, and what's left of control in the opposite.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I like the idea that Future Pike is kind of stumbling around and distraught in the flashforward, because he remembers that this is where he gets irradiated and is desperately trying to think of options to save himself from that fate.

 

[BillJ]

5.

Got to say, outside of Pike, it was totally forgettable.

Would it have killed them to give the Enterprise a rectangular bridge window? And the lighting makes the Abramsverse bridge lighting look subtle. I dig they got the station chairs right, but they look totally out of place with the rest of it.

 

[webb3201]

If they don’t spin off a Pike series it will be a damn shame. Mount has been a joy this year and I want more. After his vision and his initial gut wrenching reaction, I noticed as he was recovering , he had his hand on his fleet badge..subtle touch well done. Amazing work...he has made Pike.

 

[XCV330]

one does not simply walk into Boreth

 

[Vger23]

It did look cool. Though it must have gone through some massive climate change in the 100 year between this episode and "Rightful Heir."

Winter vs summer...or some other reasonable explanation I'm sure.

L'Rell has been eating good.....or at least the actress who plays her has. Her face is fat.

That's a real a-hole thing to say. Mary Chieffo is gorgeous and is, by all indications, an amazing person.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Should I be worried that TrekBBS promoted me to Fleet Captain this week?

Beep.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Winter vs summer...or some other reasonable explanation I'm sure.

A seasonable explanation.

 

[BillJ]

The one thing I did notice? That Chieffo and Latif have a ton more chemistry working off of each other than Martin-Green and Latif.

 

[eschaton]

Is this very un-Klingon outing Discovery's best use of the Klingons? I'm thinking so. They were interesting here at least, while most of their appearances have struck me as dull.

Indeed. Though they almost didn't even come across as being Klingons at all, but some weird sort of high fantasy race. I mean, they were guardians of a mystic temple filled with magic crystals. Trek has taken many trips into the absurd (giant space amoebas, greek gods, etc), but I think this is the most outward use of straight-up fantasy tropes yet.

Did Pike hear the whole conversation with L'Oreal (she has hair now...) and Tyler in English?

I am guessing Pike speaks Klingon, or at least can understand it.

As to why the UT chose not to translate at that moment, Trek has never been consistent on this.

Not in Star Wars. They are always one thing there.

IIRC it is always raining on Ferenginar.

L'Rell has been eating good.....or at least the actress who plays her has. Her face is fat.

No. Here's a picture of her from January.

Mary Chieffo has a very unusual face structure - very bony with wide cheekbones and a large jaw for a woman. When coupled with the makeup, it does make her face look chubby in some shots. But she's pretty clearly around the proper weight for her height, if not a bit skinny.

 

[Vger23]

I'm sold on this one after sleeping on it. It entertained the hell out of me. The emotional elements worked. The suspense/surprise stuff worked for me. The further expansion of the lore of "The Menagerie " absolutely worked, and this is a wonderful companion to "If Memory Serves" now.

Perhaps it's a little counter-reaction to my comparing this episode to the disappointment of the last two...but this gets a 9/10 from me, up from last week's 6/10. Bravo on a nice recovery.

 

[dinzy]

Well, that was a big improvement! Hopefully those last 2 1/2 episodes were just a rough patch.

Though, I continue to find Disco's attitude towards continuity so bizarre! This portrayal of Boreth doesn't connect to what's going on there in TNG at all -- and you can't just conclude "it changed over 100 years" when we're explicitly dealing with something outside of time!

But, why even use Boreth for this? The only reason to include that is to play to the hardcore fans, it could just as easily have been New Klingon Planet. It's just weird how packed this show is with continuity shout-outs that simultaneously disregard continuity. For gods sake, pick a lane! At least they told a great story with the time crystals, so it was ultimately justifiable and satisfying, if pointlessly distracting.

How does this disregard continuity? TNG is, as you discount, over 100 years in the future. This monastery has some weird time crystal thing going on on DSC and may or may not have some time xtal thing going on in TNG in addition to some weird cloning thing that may or may not have been facilitated by the weird time crystal thing. Having seen several minutes of show taking place on this planet & monastery over 2 eras that do not directly contradict what exactly is your problem with the continuity?

Granted I think the time xtals are silly and the whole Pike needs to chose this future or the ability to change it if he wants to take the xtal pretty absurd, I see no reason to assume there is a continuity violation.

 

[eschaton]

The one thing I did notice? That Chieffo and Latif have a ton more chemistry working off of each other than Martin-Green and Latif.

Latif had more unintentional chemistry in that one scene a few episodes back where he got in a fight with Cruz's character than he does with SMG. I don't think there are any two characters in the series who have worse chemistry together. Which is why I don't understand why they continue to force this freaking "relationship" down our throats.

I don't read fanfic, but apparently for Discovery the shippers love fleshing out the real relationships between Stamets/Culber and Sarek/Amanda. They're not writing for Michael/Ash.

 

[XCV330]

Indeed. Though they almost didn't even come across as being Klingons at all, but some weird sort of high fantasy race. I mean, they were guardians of a mystic temple filled with magic crystals. Trek has taken many trips into the absurd (giant space amoebas, greek gods, etc), but I think this is the most outward use of straight-up fantasy tropes yet. .

I view it about as much fantasy as the Guardian of Forever, and for all I know Boreth and the Guardian's world are both misunderstood relics of the same civilization.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

one does not simply walk into Boreth

except pike, he literally walked in the front door

 

[XCV330]

except pike, he literally walked in the front door

a small paper could be written: Pike as Trek's Aragorn, fated to his role, given the choice to remove himself from it but eventually taking on the mantle and everything that comes with it. Except Aragorn gets to rule two kingdoms, live a long time and marry an Elf hottie. Pike gets half-melted and confined to the beep chair.