Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x10 - "The Red Angel"

[SJGardner]

I'm positive she said "Michael, I am your Mother"

With my new edit to fix that, I now have The Director's Edition of my post.

What a crappy bootleg copy must I have at home... I'm pretty sure I remember her saying "No, I am your Mother." Orwellian editing, I say!

 

[Noname Given]

But if the present Burnham dies, then the future Burnham doesn't exist, thus the Red Angel doesn't exist, thus the crew doesn't try to capture the Red Angel by killing the present Burnham...

So, young Burnham dies at the edge of the Forge eaten by some Vulcan creature <-- Got it.

 

[saladdays]

Time travel is always wonky in most shows and films that use it, so I am not going to point out a bunch of seeming flaws in logic until I see how this is all played out. But my rule of thumb is that if it makes a good story, and it isn't way too over the top (I can't really quantify that, but so far this show hasn't crossed that line), then I can live with logical inconsistencies, especially since it is hard to actual comprehend what is logical and what is not with something that isn't even possible to our knowledge, at least in the way that it is shown onscreen.

 

[Yistaan]

Sarah Mitich is a very decent actress. She was good in The Expanse, definitely was underused as Airiam (1.0). Maybe they'll give her more to do as a human now. She has to prove that she belongs on the bridge, she's replacing killed off colleague, blah blah blah. There is definitely some material there to work with.

No offense to anyone, but it's kind of easy to "prove" you're worthy of replacing someone who barely had any development up until her death episode.

I'm actually saddened Mitich is seemingly going back to being a generic bridge officer. The bridge is already very crowded (Rhys, Detmer, Owosekun, Saru, Burnham, whoever is Captain, Tilly). I thought the recasting was to set Mitich up as Chief Engineer, which would have her hold her own scenes in Engineering (which is usually empty other than Stamets). The Chief Engineer has been referred to multiple times, but has never been seen (and I still don't know if Dr. Pollard is supposed to be Chief Medical Officer?)

 

[Rhodan]

Time travel is always wonky in most shows and films that use it, so I am not going to point out a bunch of seeming flaws in logic until I see how this is all played out. But my rule of thumb is that if it makes a good story, and it isn't way too over the top (I can't really quantify that, but so far this show hasn't crossed that line), then I can live with logical inconsistencies, especially since it is hard to actual comprehend what is logical and what is not with something that isn't even possible to our knowledge, at least in the way that it is shown onscreen.

But this show has still the same essential problems. It is catchy, but it´s writers seem to have problems with the storytelling of serialized drama. That´s why, for example, we are treated with this mystery of "Red Angel" design for nine episodes and then suddenly Stottleme... ehhh "Captian Leland" says "yeah, that´s the time machine suit that was developed by Section 31 and here is it´s history".

 

[Noname Given]

No offense to anyone, but it's kind of easy to "prove" you're worthy of replacing someone who barely had any development up until her death episode.

I'm actually saddened Mitich is seemingly going back to being a generic bridge officer. The bridge is already very crowded (Rhys, Detmer, Owosekun, Saru, Burnham, whoever is Captain, Tilly). I thought the recasting was to set Mitich up as Chief Engineer, which would have her hold her own scenes in Engineering (which is usually empty other than Stamets). The Chief Engineer has been referred to multiple times, but has never been seen (and I still don't know if Dr. Pollard is supposed to be Chief Medical Officer?)

Scotty in TOS only appeared as needed. Hell, some episodes were just a random voice over the intercom telling Kirk "Working..." or "Yes sir."

TNG had rotating Chief Engineers the entire first season until they made Geordi the CE in Season 2.

For all intents and purposes Stamets fills the CE 'role' for ST: D in that he's the engineering officer they'll all go to for an Engineering answer; and if he's not there Tilly will pick up the expositional slack needed.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

But this show has still the same essential problems. It is catchy, but it´s writers seem to have problems with the storytelling of serialized drama. That´s why, for example, we are treated with this mystery of "Red Angel" design for nine episodes and then suddenly Stottleme... ehhh "Captian Leland" says "yeah, that´s the time machine suit that was developed by Section 31 and here is it´s history".

MONK: Here's what happened...

 

[Yistaan]

Burnham: Hi Mom, mind telling me why saving a bunch of random World War 3 refugees was more important than, say, stopping me from committing mutiny at the Battle of the Binary Stars and saving the life of my mentor?

 

[Rhodan]

MONK: Here's what happened...

Except Monk was actually following some clues .

 

[fireproof78]

Burnham: Hi Mom, mind telling me why saving a bunch of random World War 3 refugees was more important than, say, stopping me from committing mutiny at the Battle of the Binary Stars and saving the life of my mentor?

Have you watched Doctor Who?

 

[ITDUDE]

No offense to anyone, but it's kind of easy to "prove" you're worthy of replacing someone who barely had any development up until her death episode.

That's already more of a backstory for a character than anyone else on the bridge
Producers must have some kind of plan for her right? If this ends up just being some kind of wink-wink, nudge-nudge (see fans, she used to be Airiam, cool right?) and she ends up being underused (again) then, yeah, that would be a damned shame.

 

[Yistaan]

Have you watched Doctor Who?

A bit but not so much in recent times. I did like Jodie Whitaker's debut episode.

Are you saying the Battle of the Binary Stars is a fixed point in time? I don't think that concept is in Trek.

 

[fireproof78]

A bit but not so much in recent times. I did like Jodie Whitaker's debut episode.

The episodes that I find most insightful are the ones that illustrate that the experience of time in time travel is not always as precise as one might think.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Burnham: Hi Mom, mind telling me why saving a bunch of random World War 3 refugees was more important than, say, stopping me from committing mutiny at the Battle of the Binary Stars and saving the life of my mentor?

Bajoran Celestial Temple-sized hole there.

New Eden plays a role in Michael's family history. Or else New Eden will be erased to correct the timeline.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

​

"And I would have gotten away with it, too, if not for you meddling kids!"

​

 

[SJGardner]

Burnham: Hi Mom, mind telling me why saving a bunch of random World War 3 refugees was more important than, say, stopping me from committing mutiny at the Battle of the Binary Stars and saving the life of my mentor?

I almost began to say Burnham wasn't in mortal danger during that battle, but I just remembered that she actually was. I think her mom's criteria for going back and saving Burnham would be the knowledge that she won't survive the situation without her direct intervention. I didn't see her coming back in this episode as a plot hole myself (I thought Spock managed to engineer a situation where she had to come back and save Michael), but time travel is a subject that practically everyone is bound to interpret differently.

But to be a bit cheeky with the question of what's more important... if a mother repeatedly went back in time to correct her children's mistakes for them, I definitely wouldn't put them into the 'good parents' category. That's an almost pathological level of overbearing.

 

[saladdays]

But this show has still the same essential problems. It is catchy, but it´s writers seem to have problems with the storytelling of serialized drama. That´s why, for example, we are treated with this mystery of "Red Angel" design for nine episodes and then suddenly Stottleme... ehhh "Captian Leland" says "yeah, that´s the time machine suit that was developed by Section 31 and here is it´s history".

That's one of the reasons why I want to see how it all plays out. I'm not saying it will ever make perfect sense, but it could make sense later on once the whole arc is played out.

EDIT: I'm not saying it's wrong to be critical or anything, just that I'm not going to be overly critical unless things are just totally out of whack.

 

[Rhodan]

That's one of the reasons why I want to see how it all plays out. I'm not saying it will ever make perfect sense, but it could make sense later on once the whole arc is played out.

I agree, but I´m afraid...

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Michael's real mother was a Prophet...

And Ben "Emmisary" Sisko is her father.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

And Ben "Emmisary" Sisko is her father.

What? You mean she’ll become her own great-grandmother?