Supergirl - Season Four

[Guy Gardener]

The relationship that Lex has with the Kara duplicate is one of the most disturbing things we've seen in the Berlanti shows so far. The similarities between Lex's behavior toward Kara2 bears remarkable similarities to how a pedophile or sexual predator would "groom" a child or young adult. Caring and gentle on one hand, but domineering and controlling on the other leaving the victim both enthralled and submissive. Very creepy.

That's his job.

The Kasnian General paid Lex Luthor to indoctrinate Kara Too.

This is a gentler version of how a cult programs a normal person into selling flowers at the airport, but only because, sex, drugs, starvation, beatings and sleep deprivation will not work on a Kryptonian.

 

[theenglish]

The treatment of President Marsdin is probably one of my few criticisms of this show. As soon as she was revealed to be secretly an alien any credit she had toward doing good was over IMO. Regardless of how you try to justify it, she was not constitutionally allowed to be President. And lying to the people is lying to the people.

 

[Christopher]

And lying to the people is lying to the people.

Tell that to any superhero with a secret identity. Just recently in "Elseworlds," we had Lois pointing out the ethical problem of Clark reporting on his own actions as Superman. We forgive him for lying to the people even though he's a reporter whose job is supposed to rely on honesty and objectivity.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Haha! Lex gave himself cancer!

I feel kind of bad how utterly pointless that Agent Liberty turns out to have been Just a distraction.

Hence the Russian sobriquet/insult, "Useful idiot."

One thing, though -- if she learned Russian (Kaznian?) before she learned English, then why did she need to look up the Russian word for "Help" in a Russian/English translation dictionary???

That bugged me too. And if Lex knew Kara was SG, shouldn't he have recognized who "Alex" was and then avoided talking so much about his own sister?

Lex killing the entire court room was amazing.

Everyone except himself, Lena, Jimmy and a few guards.

Well it wasn't as it was obviously faked. It's a good thing Comrade Girl isn't very familiar with the aftermath of the weapons on nuklear wessels.

I caught the ST:IV ref right away!

I wonder if the letter left on Lena's desk will finally inform her that Kara is Supergirl...

If its from Lex, I doubt it. I think he'd prefer to look into Lena's eyes when he destroyed such an important friendship for Lena.

If its from Eve... I wonder if its her offer to turn triple agent against Lex because she's finally coming to her senses. (Talk about being a useful idiot) Its that old adage about how do you dismount from riding a wild tiger without being eaten?

 

[Christopher]

And if Lex knew Kara was SG, shouldn't he have recognized who "Alex" was and then avoided talking so much about his own sister?

Maybe he didn't know yet? We don't know when he found out.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The treatment of President Marsdin is probably one of my few criticisms of this show. As soon as she was revealed to be secretly an alien any credit she had toward doing good was over IMO. Regardless of how you try to justify it, she was not constitutionally allowed to be President. And lying to the people is lying to the people.

I appreciate the fact that it made LC's appearance on the show important. It allowed a nice transition betwene the "Golden Age" and anger toward the government as well as situation.

 

[Christopher]

Back when they first revealed Marsdin was an alien, I wished they'd established that she'd been born in the US rather than coming here as a child, because then they could've dodged the whole "natural-born citizen" issue. When she was outed, I figured, "Well, okay, that sort of justifies having her not born on Earth, because it makes it plot-relevant and sets up her resignation." But now that I think about it, the plot could still have worked if she'd been born here. Outing her as an alien could still have ruined her politically, but it wouldn't be on Constitutional grounds, so there'd be more ambiguity to it, and the focus could be on the issue of anti-alien prejudice without the Constitutional issue getting in the way.

I mean, in this version, she'd have been qualified to be President because she was born here, but her political enemies would still argue that being nonhuman disqualified her even though there's nothing in the Constitution about it. (Well, Article II Section 1 does specify a "person," and some could argue that "person" only means "human," even though there's no formal legal definition for "person" because it's always been taken for granted.) Even aside from the racial issue, some people might argue that she'd committed electoral fraud by not informing the electorate of her true identity so they could make an informed decision. Although I think that argument would only stick if she'd actually committed some illegal act (akin to paying off a porn star) in order to improve her electoral chances, as opposed to simply keeping a secret. The question is whether she could've successfully mounted an entire political career without ever committing some fraudulent act to conceal her species. She would've had to fake her medical reports, but past presidents like FDR and Kennedy have hidden their health problems from the public. (Although it was a major controversy in The West Wing when the cover-up of President Bartlet's MS was revealed.)

But you see where this can go. It wouldn't be obvious that she'd broken the law; it'd be a more controversial and complicated question, coming down more to belief and point of view. They could've still had her resign because she'd lost the public's trust, so the plot would've still worked, and might've had some more interesting nuances. So whatever my personal feelings about the natural-birth requirement, it would've probably served the story better if Marsdin had been born here, because then we could've avoided that whole Constitutional issue and dealt with more thematically relevant ones about acceptance of aliens.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Yes, I think her resignation makes more sense if she could have theoretically fought it. That if it was all lies of omission.

 

[Photoman15]

Working for the current one for over two years now.

Whoops! You're thinking of the president before the current one who ran amok over the Constitution, ignoring it when it suited him or his group.

 

[Ovation]

Whoops! You're thinking of the president before the current one who ran amok over the Constitution, ignoring it when it suited him or his group.

Time and place. Time and place.

 

[The Realist]

Whoops! You're thinking of the president before the current one who ran amok over the Constitution, ignoring it when it suited him or his group.

Why is there no "Dislike" button?

 

[theenglish]

Tell that to any superhero with a secret identity. Just recently in "Elseworlds," we had Lois pointing out the ethical problem of Clark reporting on his own actions as Superman. We forgive him for lying to the people even though he's a reporter whose job is supposed to rely on honesty and objectivity.

One of the more troubling aspects of Byrne's legacy is Clark getting his job at the planet and keeping it by writing about Superman. I would say this "moral dilemma" gets overlooked by fans rather than forgiven. And it seems to me that the POTUS lying about being an alien is ethically worse that Clark or Kara maintaining their jobs as reporters.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Back when they first revealed Marsdin was an alien, I wished they'd established that she'd been born in the US rather than coming here as a child, because then they could've dodged the whole "natural-born citizen" issue.

I'd like to have seen them explore, or explore more thoroughly, the question of whether an alien who's not entitled to American citizenship at birth can be just as loyal an American in the context of Presidential qualification as any natural born citizen. If they mentioned that at all, it didn't make much of an impression on me, and I don't recall it.

It wouldn't affect the argument of whether Marsdin had to resign, but it would bring into play the question of whether it remains a worthwhile requirement on Earth-38, while setting the stage for the anti-alien hate sweeping the country, since presumably enough people would come out against it to table (in the American sense) the question indefinitely.

For example, there could have been talking heads debating whether to amend the Constitution on TV as Kara, James, etc. listen in and discuss it among themselves. Sounds boring, I know.... But such a scene wouldn't need to last very long at all.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I'd like to have seen them explore, or explore more thoroughly, the question of whether an alien who's not entitled to American citizenship at birth can be just as loyal an American in the context of Presidential qualification as any natural born citizen. If they mentioned that at all, it didn't make much of an impression on me, and I don't recall it.

It wouldn't affect the argument of whether Marsdin had to resign, but it would bring into play the question of whether it remains a worthwhile requirement on Earth-38, while setting the stage for the anti-alien hate sweeping the country, since presumably enough people would come out against it to table (in the American sense) the question indefinitely.

For example, there could have been talking heads debating whether to amend the Constitution on TV as Kara, James, etc. listen in and discuss it among themselves. Sounds boring, I know.... But such a scene wouldn't need to last very long at all.

Mind you a large part of the subtext of the series is that Kara, Clark, and Jonn are people passionately devoted to their jobs but there's the larger question of whether they're loyal to humanity as a whole or the nation they have adopted and whether that should be a question at all.

Either way they are passionately devoted to their adopted worlds.

 

[Christopher]

One of the more troubling aspects of Byrne's legacy is Clark getting his job at the planet and keeping it by writing about Superman.

That idea existed long, long before John Byrne. That's been how Clark got the job since at least the 1952 pilot of the George Reeves TV series, and probably earlier. Certainly the comics showed Clark routinely using his super-advantage to beat Lois to the scoop on Superman stories on many occasions.

And it seems to me that the POTUS lying about being an alien is ethically worse that Clark or Kara maintaining their jobs as reporters.

Aside from the Constitutional technicality, her being an alien should have no bearing on her ability to do the job -- although lying about anything substantial could expose her to blackmail and thus compromise her. But a reporter's job relies on objectivity and detachment, so I'd say that reporting on stories you're directly involved in, while keeping that involvement a secret, is a huge conflict of interest that would make it impossible to do your job properly.

 

[theenglish]

From the perspective that one is an elected official and the other is a private employee, I think it makes a huge difference.

But thanks for the tidbit on the history of Superman. I was unaware of that. Back in the seventies and early eighties, Clark hardly ever reported on Superman and was content to let Lois get those scoops.

 

[The Realist]

But thanks for the tidbit on the history of Superman. I was unaware of that.

As Christopher suggested it might, it goes back even further. See the initial clip in this video, featuring Kirk Alyn, the first live-action screen Superman:

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[Christopher]

From the perspective that one is an elected official and the other is a private employee, I think it makes a huge difference.

Reporters serve the public trust. The integrity of the fourth estate is vital to the public interest, because it's part of what guarantees the integrity of elected officials (when it's doing its job properly, that is). So if anything, the honesty of reporters is even more important. If politicians are dishonest, reporters are the ones whose job is to expose them. But if the people who provide us with information are dishonest, how will we know? Where would we be if Woodward and Bernstein had been more corrupt than Nixon?

 

[Charles Phipps]

From the perspective that one is an elected official and the other is a private employee, I think it makes a huge difference.

But thanks for the tidbit on the history of Superman. I was unaware of that. Back in the seventies and early eighties, Clark hardly ever reported on Superman and was content to let Lois get those scoops.

Eh, while you could argue it's unethical, he's saved Lois' life literally hundreds of times so I'm willing to cut him some slack.

We also see Kara do the same thing.

"Yes, Supergirl says Cadmus is bad!"

Reporters serve the public trust. The integrity of the fourth estate is vital to the public interest, because it's part of what guarantees the integrity of elected officials (when it's doing its job properly, that is). So if anything, the honesty of reporters is even more important. If politicians are dishonest, reporters are the ones whose job is to expose them. But if the people who provide us with information are dishonest, how will we know? Where would we be if Woodward and Bernstein had been more corrupt than Nixon?

Well it's a question, are Kara or Clark lying about the stories they're telling?

I had a problem about Superman renouncing his American Citizenship while Clark doesn't but I have fewer issues if Clark talks about the fight with Metallo.

 

[Gryffindorian]

It was a very well written episode looking into Lex Luthor's machinations, from his Kaznian collusion, manipulating and brainwashing Red Daughter, to securing Lena's Harun-el serum.

They showed the Golden Gate Bridge upon referencing National City. Does that mean It's located in the San Francisco Bay Area?