15 Years Later, VOY Seems So Much Better

[Starfleet Engineer]

On kind of a whim, I started watching Voyager again from the beginning. I'm halfway through season 4. It's so much better than it was the first time I watched it! I'm not sure why. The show didn't change, so I guess I've changed. Also, all these years later I'm detached from all the criticism of the show that was going on at the time, especially from trek fans here at the BBS. All the Brannon/Braga hate, the claims of being a TNG retread, etc. have fallen by the wayside, so I can just judge it based on what I see and hear on the screen. Even my feelings about Neelix have improved. I'm not nearly as annoyed by him. heh-heh It almost feels like I have a new 24th century Trek show to watch!

Have any of you re-watched and had a change of heart about VOY?

 

[KimMH]

I liked it from the start and have been pleased that it holds up pretty well for me. Neelix is the one character who has grown on me the most. First because he really irritated me the first time- I suspect he was meant to be comedic relief of a sort. As I’ve gotten older -gawd so old- I recognize his nervousness was fear and insecurity and realized I would have been terrified too. So maybe I reveal myself but that’s ok. Sure, some points are better than others but overall I’ve continued to enjoy it.

 

[cosmic mouse]

Also, all these years later I'm detached from all the criticism of the show that was going on at the time, especially from trek fans here at the BBS. All the Brannon/Braga hate, the claims of being a TNG retread, etc. have fallen by the wayside...

Lol, prepare to be "reattached" if you are posting here... I joke, but the criticism for this series seems a bit on the strong side to me. I'm not a Trekkie though, so my reference point is different. Regarding your feelings on rewatch I think it's fantastic since it is the best Trek series after all. I have no real frame of reference since the only eps I saw back in the 90s were Scorpion and maybe one other, so watching it in 2017 was a novel (and wholly worthwhile) experience for me.
Welcome back!

 

[chris of nine]

I’m this way, too.
The thing holds up. It doesn’t feel dated to me.
Timeless.
Sure, you can point out stuff here and there.
But there’s a whole lot more in TNG that made me go ick.

One outstanding reason for my positive outlook is the music score.

VOY has the best theme for me, and I grew up watching TOS on the original air dates.

And during the episodes.......

A real orchestra playing original music without a lot of repetitive rerunning stuff. It’s seriously musical. Leaves me with a sense of peace. And it doesn’t say, “hey, it’s the 90s” at all to me.

 

[Akiraprise]

I just finished up with a DS9 re-watch and have started VOY again from Season 1. TNG and VOY were the two Treks I grew up with. DS9 in my area had an awful Saturday afternoon time slot often preempted by sports so I never got into it. (Well worth a watch if you haven't caught DS9.) VOY was my favorite and still remains so.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Watching or rewatching a show years later takes away the weight of expectation you have first time.

You enjoy it for what it is, rather than resent it for not being what you wish it was.

 

[Pondwater]

It’s my second favorite Trek.

 

[weissmr]

I was also on board with much of the criticism of Voyager at the time it aired. Without the politics of production at the time, this turns out to be a dang entertaining show!

I probably return to Voyager the most. And that is something I can't ignore.

As a side note, I am a Rick Berman fan. I appreciate the consistency he provided for the franchise. Part of that was an effort to be as timeless and forward thinking as possible. As a result, Voyager has a grace that continues today.

Neelix may be the trek character I identify with most. I just re-watched "Homestead" and I can't help but notice that this is a well intentioned and sincere guy that does whatever he can do to help. He might be a joke to people, but at the end of the day, he is willing to give it all up to ensure the mission is a success. Janeway basically had to tell him to prioritize himself for once. HOW SWEET IS THAT?

 

[Tenacity]

Neelix may be the trek character I identify with most

Haven't always gotten approval from people, and this is one of the reasons I love Neelix so much. He in there trying and keeping his own spirits up and helping others.

 

[chris of nine]

Watching or rewatching a show years later takes away the weight of expectation you have first time.

You enjoy it for what it is, rather than resent it for not being what you wish it was.

And what you wished.....because it was live at the time, that the wow factor would always be off the scale.

Ron Moore would say, “It’s the characters, stupid.”

If you’re hitting the wow button all the time, you wear out the contacts.

So, I think the mix here is good.

Maybe a few less sparks on the bridge.

Fire would be nice.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I would agree with comments in general. Maybe it’s just cause my ‘dark gritty sci-fi with lasting continuity’ itch is much better scratched in 2019 than it was in 1995, so my tolerance for the silly aspects of Voyager is a lot higher. I’m even enjoying Neelix except for his jealousy episodes.

In 1995 it felt exactly like everything else on television, whereas now it feels like a respite from everything else on television.

 

[Lynx]

I really loved Voyager's seasons 1-3.

But I don't give that much for season 4-6. Mainly because Kes was kicked out but also because the series was turned into The Seven Of Nine Show while the other characters, except for The Doctor and maybe janeway were shoved in the background.

I never watched season 7 for obvious reasons.

Jirin Panthosa wrote:

I would agree with comments in general. Maybe it’s just cause my ‘dark gritty sci-fi with lasting continuity’ itch is much better scratched in 2019 than it was in 1995, so my tolerance for the silly aspects of Voyager is a lot higher. I’m even enjoying Neelix except for his jealousy episodes

In 1995 it felt exactly like everything else on television, whereas now it feels like a respite from everything else on television.

I guess that it has something to do with the total lack of quality in series made after 2010
In my opinion, the current decade must be the most boring in the whole history of entertainment.

The music sucks, the movies sucks and the TV series sucks.

The only show worth watching now is NCIS. When that series is finished, I will spend all my entertainment time watching old series on DVD.

 

[KimMH]

It was a big frikkin ship. I wish Kes had stayed. Seven was interesting enough but everyone else suffered for her exposure.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Jirin Panthosa wrote:


I guess that it has something to do with the total lack of quality in series made after 2010
In my opinion, the current decade must be the most boring in the whole history of entertainment.

The music sucks, the movies sucks and the TV series sucks.

The only show worth watching now is NCIS. When that series is finished, I will spend all my entertainment time watching old series on DVD.

I strongly disagree with that statement, I think the shows we're getting now and in the past few years have been historically great shows. I think most of the crime procedurals like CSI are mostly dull repetitive stories with the occasional brilliant episode, and I think that the best formula procedurals came well before the 00s.

Just, all the great shows now are heavily serialized intense emotional rollercoasters. And Voyager provides all the things those shows are missing. It balances out the current TV diet, kind of like Orville except with actors capable of showing nuanced emotion.

 

[Kor]

I would say that TV series suck on the regular broadcast networks. The good stuff is on cable and streaming services.

Kor

 

[Lynx]

I strongly disagree with that statement, I think the shows we're getting now and in the past few years have been historically great shows. I think most of the crime procedurals like CSI are mostly dull repetitive stories with the occasional brilliant episode, and I think that the best formula procedurals came well before the 00s.

Just, all the great shows now are heavily serialized intense emotional rollercoasters. And Voyager provides all the things those shows are missing. It balances out the current TV diet, kind of like Orville except with actors capable of showing nuanced emotion.

I have to disagree here.
Series like CSI, CSI Miami, CSI New York, NCIS, Star Trek-The Next Generation, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Star Trek Voyager, Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis had great characters, exciting episodes and good stories.

Series made after 2010 lacks all of that. Uninteresting or downright repulsive characters, dull stories, too much doom-and-gloom and splatter scenes and too much political correctness. Even Star trek Enterprise looks great compared with what we have to stand today.

 

[Kilana2]

I guess that it has something to do with the total lack of quality in series made after 2010
In my opinion, the current decade must be the most boring in the whole history of entertainment.

The music sucks, the movies sucks and the TV series sucks.

The only show worth watching now is NCIS. When that series is finished, I will spend all my entertainment time watching old series on DVD.

I'd like to watch the older Law & Order SVU seasons and the newer seasons on DVD. But I will never buy any DVDs again, because I fear they are defective like my DS9 DVDs. They became unwatchable after I watched certain episodes more than two times. We have already discussed that f****** problem in the other thread. But essentially it keeps me from buying any TV show DVDs for fear of bad quality. I don't want to throw my money into the toilet!

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I have to disagree here.
Series like CSI, CSI Miami, CSI New York, NCIS, Star Trek-The Next Generation, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Star Trek Voyager, Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis had great characters, exciting episodes and good stories.

Series made after 2010 lacks all of that. Uninteresting or downright repulsive characters, dull stories, too much doom-and-gloom and splatter scenes and too much political correctness. Even Star trek Enterprise looks great compared with what we have to stand today.

CSI had ten great episodes and a hundred okay to pretty good ones. If it had as short a season as Columbo it'd be easier for me to see it as an all time great show.

And I would put Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Game of Thrones, Silicon Valley, Community, Black Mirror, Stranger Things, The Good Place etc, etc in the top 20 shows of all time. It's a matter of opinion if you don't like that style of shows. But in my opinion, the older more cliche driven 'Crime of the week' kind of show didn't improve in the 90s over what they accomplished in the 60s and 70s. (90s scifi being an exception). CSI is a good show, not better than Columbo. Cop dramas not competing with Hill St Blues.

CSI was great in the first season or two. Then it kind of gradually declined, they tried to retool Grissom from a nerd to a badass, and the episode that was the final straw for me was in the fourth season or so when there was this guy who realized who the murderer was, confronted him directly, then walked directly to a confined tanning booth, in the building with the murderer he just confronted and threatened. By that time they stopped coming up with any interesting murders and were more focused on the weak personal life drama of the mains. And way too many "Oooh look at us we're exploring a niche culture that some find weird and scandalous" episodes.

 

[Lynx]

CSI had ten great episodes and a hundred okay to pretty good ones. If it had as short a season as Columbo it'd be easier for me to see it as an all time great show.

And I would put Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Game of Thrones, Silicon Valley, Community, Black Mirror, Stranger Things, The Good Place etc, etc in the top 20 shows of all time. It's a matter of opinion if you don't like that style of shows. But in my opinion, the older more cliche driven 'Crime of the week' kind of show didn't improve in the 90s over what they accomplished in the 60s and 70s. (90s scifi being an exception). CSI is a good show, not better than Columbo. Cop dramas not competing with Hill St Blues.

CSI was great in the first season or two. Then it kind of gradually declined, they tried to retool Grissom from a nerd to a badass, and the episode that was the final straw for me was in the fourth season or so when there was this guy who realized who the murderer was, confronted him directly, then walked directly to a confined tanning booth, in the building with the murderer he just confronted and threatened. By that time they stopped coming up with any interesting murders and were more focused on the weak personal life drama of the mains. And way too many "Oooh look at us we're exploring a niche culture that some find weird and scandalous" episodes.

I found "Breaking Bad" moody and boring and as for "Game of Thrones", I'm tired of those medieval sword-waving stuff. Give me a good Western any day!

"Silicon Valley" was more of a comedy. "Columbo" was good!

I guess it's a matter of taste but I still think that the 2010:s are incredible boring when it comes to entertainment.

And I'm not gonna go into "Star Trek Discovery" which I actually have watched three episodes of now. It makes "Star trek Enterprise" looklika the masterpiece of the century.

And I still can't stand the Klingon Ninja Turtles.

 

[Lynx]

I'd like to watch the older Law & Order SVU seasons and the newer seasons on DVD. But I will never buy any DVDs again, because I fear they are defective like my DS9 DVDs. They became unwatchable after I watched certain episodes more than two times. We have already discussed that f****** problem in the other thread. But essentially it keeps me from buying any TV show DVDs for fear of bad quality. I don't want to throw my money into the toilet!

Well, I've done another try with DS9 DVD:s now. It will be nteresting to see if they are of the same bad quality as the previous ones.

Strange enough, the DS9 DVD:s are the only ones I've had such problems with. Some TNG DVD:s I have are a bit unreliable too but so far I can watch the episodes. Otherwise my DVD:s works fine so far.

The reason for me to prefer DVD:s is that I want to decide where and when I want to watch a series or movie. I don't want to be dependent of something like Netflix who all of a sudden may announce "sorry but this series is no longer available". Not to mention that I don't want to pay over and over again for the same stuff either.