Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x02 - "New Eden"

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Suppose it was Tuvix hitting the asteroid trying to escape Janeway fixing him?

IT WOULD STILL BE MURDER!

Honestly, while I felt everyone else's pain there, I felt worst for poor Tuvix. (Personally, I didn't find him any more annoying than either Tuvok or Neelix separately. Most everyone on Voyager was at least a little annoying...but don't get me wrong, I liked them all well enough anyway, most of the time. It was a motley crew of misfits.) He was right, Tuvok and Neelix were both dead, and all they were really doing is trading one Frankenstein's monster for two, and deliberately killing a benign and unique being in the process. Janeway shouldn't have forced him into it, and others should have objected more strongly.

Obviously, permanently axing two of the main cast members wasn't on the cards, and the resultant character may not have been particularly suited to a continuing presence anyway. TUVIX HAD TO DIE!

I think what should have happened is, in the end it should have been his own choice to sacrifice himself for their return, and the benefit of their friends and loved ones, after initially refusing. It could still have been just as dramatic, we could still have felt his anguish at dying, and Janeway could even still have made up her mind as she did, and been about to inform him, when he instead pre-empted her by making the decision himself. She could have then felt disturbed by what she had almost done, having only been saved from it by Tuvix (which could also have been among his reasons for changing his mind, to spare her having to live with signing his death warrant.) Above all, she and the other characters could have expressed some measure of regret at the loss of their newfound friend, despite being ultimately consoled by the return of their old ones. I'm sure some might see that as a cop-out, but IMO such tweaks to the final scenes would have considerably improved the story for everyone concerned.

-MMoM

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Well, Landry wasn't a straight white male

How do we even know Connolly was straight, anyway? Did I miss something?

-MMoM

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The character was barely onscreen for five minutes and his biggest claims to fame before being turned into asteroid pizza were being an asshole and getting sneezed on. Where is all this angst coming from? He was written to be the designated disposable doofus who pays the price for their hubris. It's a pretty standard trope, exhibited by the aforementioned Landry last season.

 

[Gonzo]

The character was barely onscreen for five minutes and his biggest claims to fame before being turned into asteroid pizza were being an asshole and getting sneezed on. Where is all this angst coming from? He was written to be the designated disposable doofus who pays the price for their hubris. It's a pretty standard trope, exhibited by the aforementioned Landry last season.

It looks to me like the thread has caught a bad case of virtue signalling, I wasn't going to mention it but its getting ridiculous now.

He is a nobody and its not like its never happened before in Star Trek.

 

[cbl1]

The way he’s leaning it’s hard to tell his weight. The shirt is leaning out so impossible to see how much belly.

I would imagine he is working out for guest appearances on Picard new show. Being he is already involved with the current generation of shows it would seem near impossible we don’t see some appearances from him in the new show.

 

[Gov Kodos]

The character was barely onscreen for five minutes and his biggest claims to fame before being turned into asteroid pizza were being an asshole and getting sneezed on. Where is all this angst coming from? He was written to be the designated disposable doofus who pays the price for their hubris. It's a pretty standard trope, exhibited by the aforementioned Landry last season.

The Apple, that episode had two beam downs at the outset. You knew the episode was going to be a blood bath right from the get go. The show started with a plethora of red shirts who existed to get offed by the various ways the planet had to kill people.

 

[Campe]

He was a glorified extra. The focus on him is ridiculous.

 

[Lord Garth]

I thought the discussion about representation of different religions which, unlike Connolly, was actually in this episode was more interesting to talk about.

 

[Campe]

I thought the discussion about representation of different religions which, unlike Connolly, was actually in this episode was more interesting to talk about.

Great, now someone is going to start the Church of Connolly.

 

[Claudia]

Liked both episodes of season 2 so far.

First of all, they don't take themselves too seriously anymore, there's some dry humour, not just tragedy and sad faces. Pike hits all my buttons (which I didn't expect since he's not Greenwood who I just adored in that role - but some mannerisms transferred well to the new actor), and I'm glad to see him sticking around - especially since my highlight of season 1, Lorca, isn't around at the moment. But I could still see him (or real universe version, at least) come back since he just got lost somewhere, not confirmed dead - and maybe he got lost in some similar kind of transport that "beamed" the ancestors of New Eden's inhabitants to the new planet?

Tilly with all her perkiness gets on my nerves, and for all I care Stamets is welcome to leave Discovery as he announced - never got attached to that character and thought his was the weakest arc in season 1. But overall, I like that they try to be more of an ensemble show now, giving the bridge crew a bit more to do instead of only showing Lorca, Burnham and her boyfriend (didn't care about him, either, definitely not looking forward to seeing him again...).

The rationality behind the decision to save New Eden was a call back to Into Darkness (asteroid vs volcano). And, of course, determining the PD applies and then beaming right into the middle of the village was a bit ridiculous.

I'm looking forward to this version of Spock - unpopular opinion maybe, but new guy can only be an improvement to Quinto's version. Just hope they won't completely ruin the reunion. So far there's still nothing to indicate why Sarek disapproves of Spock's decision to join Starfleet (which was given as reason for their rift in Journey to Babel). Don't expect me to understand, though, why Sarek thinks the addition of Burnham to their family could show Spock empathy when his human mother apparently can't. This part's really still very wonky, and I'm still not sure whether Discovery even needs this kind of small-universe inclusion.

But so far, I'm pleasantly surprised by season 2, closer to the ST-spirit of old and a joy to watch. They even managed not to kill of the redshirt in episode 1 (in another callback scene to Into Darkness), but the blue shirt Spock replacement instead. *g*

 

[eschaton]

I thought the discussion about representation of different religions which, unlike Connolly, was actually in this episode was more interesting to talk about.

I disagree the representation of different religions was the focus of the episode. The syncretic faith of the residents of the planet was basically just mentioned in two infodumps. With the exception of Jacob, the colonists weren't even really treated as people, but as a "problem of the week" - either dealing with the Prime Directive (plot A) or how to save them (plot B).

The A plot I think was primarily about the mild conflict between Micheal and Pike. Micheal wanted to intervene and saw the local's beliefs as nothing but superstition. Pike wanted to honor the Prime Directive and thought their beliefs had merit. At the end of the episode, Micheal showed true character growth, realizing that just because she thought she knew better than a commanding officer, didn't mean that she had a right to act outside of the chain of command (a lesson she should have learned by the end of season 1, but whatever).

The B plot was just Trekkian filler - though maybe the Tilly spore-ghost weirdness will go somewhere later on.

 

[Campe]

Micheal

I really hate being a spelling Nazi, but being its my middle name, so misspelling this is a HUGE pet peeve.

M-I-C-H-A-E-L.

 

[Jadeb]

Micheal showed true character growth, realizing that just because she thought she knew better than a commanding officer, didn't mean that she had a right to act outside of the chain of command (a lesson she should have learned by the end of season 1, but whatever)

Or her first week at the academy.

 

[XCV330]

Great, now someone is going to start the Church of Connolly.

"He Was Smug and Unlikable, so that we did not have to be."


"And there upon the orders of the Pikish one, the usurper of Discovery sent forth three spinning bundles carrying the souls of the officers. And upon passing numerous and oft dangerous minerals colliding to and fro in the vacuum of the ether, lo the follower of the dark angel, Michael The Mutineer raised her ire at St. Connolly, and bid that he do as she wilt, but in this Connolly refused saying "Thou art a beetle headed flap eared knave, and know I how to fly my own pod, and my own council will I take, not that of daughter of Eve, for it is known in this universe that you were wrong about many things, and that your analogy of a compass oversimplified my erudition to the captain, blinding him to all that I tried to enlighten him too, and made him smitten to your perspicacity, even as I was cast aside and my countenance marred by the mucus of reptiles."

"Bear I no further insult or humiliation, Burnham-be-Damned, I shall cleave my sail and plot my own course" This he did, bravely, while the Pike remonstrated, ordering him to obey the words twice repeated. With forthright indignation again Connolly set his reasons and explanations for doing as he ought, and a host of half-Caitian angels were heard to sing as in a choir as a force of evil smote his ruin with a rogue comet, and in a flash of light he was taken to heaven and was seen aboard Discovery no more, but his spirit remained anon.."

-1st Connolly 14:12-20.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Well, Landry wasn't a straight white male

Connolly's death eliciting white fragility from a subset of fans is one of the best things this show could have ever done.

 

[drt]

So far there's still nothing to indicate why Sarek disapproves of Spock's decision to join Starfleet (which was given as reason for their rift in Journey to Babel). Don't expect me to understand, though, why Sarek thinks the addition of Burnham to their family could show Spock empathy when his human mother apparently can't. This part's really still very wonky, and I'm still not sure whether Discovery even needs this kind of small-universe inclusion.

My assumption for at least part of the rift (as retconned by Discovery) is that Sarek chose Spock over Burnham to join the Vulcan expeditionary group, and then Spock joined Starfleet.

I'm with you on the empathy thing, which didn't seem well explained - unless his thinking was having two humans (including one closwr to his age) would be more effective.

 

[Campe]

"He Was Smug and Unlikable, so that we did not have to be."


"And there upon the orders of the Pikish one, the usurper of Discovery sent forth three spinning bundles carrying the souls of the officers. And upon passing numerous and oft dangerous minerals colliding to and fro in the vacuum of the ether, lo the follower of the dark angel, Michael The Mutineer raised her ire at St. Connolly, and bid that he do as she wilt, but in this Connolly refused saying "Thou art a beetle headed flap eared knave, and know I how to fly my own pod, and my own council will I take, not that of daughter of Eve, for it is known in this universe that you were wrong about many things, and that your analogy of a compass oversimplified my erudition to the captain, blinding him to all that I tried to enlighten him too, and made him smitten to your perspicacity, even as I was cast aside and my countenance marred by the mucus of reptiles."

"Bear I no further insult or humiliation, Burnham-be-Damned, I shall cleave my sail and plot my own course" This he did, bravely, while the Pike remonstrated, ordering him to obey the words twice repeated. With forthright indignation again Connolly set his reasons and explanations for doing as he ought, and a host of half-Caitian angels were heard to sing as in a choir as a force of evil smote his ruin with a rogue comet, and in a flash of light he was taken to heaven and was seen aboard Discovery no more, but his spirit remained anon.."

-1st Connolly 14:12-20.

 

[cooleddie74]

It's possible that in the 2240s Sarek saw Starfleet as more of a military organization with a partial mission assignment that went against what he saw as the core of Vulcan philosophy. Though the stated purpose of Starfleet both before and after the founding of the Federation was peaceful exploration and diplomacy he could well have seen it as an extension of old human militarism and aggression, traits that weren't all that far in the past.

Being half-Vulcan his son had already dealt with enough prejudice and exclusive behavior from his fully Vulcan peers and here was Spock wanting to join the service that humans had pioneered and originally founded. Sarek was already feeling torn over the destiny he preferred for his son and not only wanted to protect him from harm and exclusion from his own society but also wanted to feed his own ego, an ego that patiently tolerated Amanda's human behavior and Spock's flirtations with his own emotions but did not want them to negatively impact on his own image as a stoic Vulcan diplomat and a member of an important family going back generations.

So he refused to give his consent to Spock's enlistment in Starfleet as an externalization of his own fears of being seen as too contaminated by human foibles and weaknesses while going ahead and allowing Michael to embrace whichever destiny she chose because he felt a special responsibility for her after rescuing her from Doctari Alpha and accepting that she was a full human that he couldn't control the destiny of even if he tried. We may also have to consider that his failures with Sybok also affected how he treated Spock as his fully-Vulcan oldest child openly rebelled against his world's society and embraced all of his passions and emotions, being exiled and never returning to his homeworld. After Sybok's insurgency and betrayal of practically everything Sarek held dear he wasn't about to just stand back and let Spock do whatever he wanted with those foolish, emotional humans and their Starfleet.

 

[DaveyNY]

It's possible that in the 2240s Sarek saw Starfleet as more of a military organization with a partial mission assignment that went against what he saw as the core of Vulcan philosophy. Though the stated purpose of Starfleet both before and after the founding of the Federation was peaceful exploration and diplomacy he could well have seen it as an extension of old human militarism and aggression, traits that weren't all that far in the past.

Being half-Vulcan his son had already dealt with enough prejudice and exclusive behavior from his fully Vulcan peers and here was Spock wanting to join the service that humans had pioneered and originally founded. Sarek was already feeling torn over the destiny he preferred for his son and not only wanted to protect him from harm and exclusion from his own society but also wanted to feed his own ego, an ego that patiently tolerated Amanda's human behavior and Spock's flirtations with his own emotions but did not want them to negatively impact on his own image as a stoic Vulcan diplomat and a member of an important family going back generations.

So he refused to give his consent to Spock's enlistment in Starfleet as an externalization of his own fears of being seen as too contaminated by human foibles and weaknesses while going ahead and allowing Michael to embrace whichever destiny she chose because he felt a special responsibility for her after rescuing her from Doctari Alpha and accepting that she was a full human that he couldn't control the destiny of even if he tried. We may also have to consider that his failures with Sybok also affected how he treated Spock as his fully-Vulcan oldest child openly rebelled against his world's society and embraced all of his passions and emotions, being exiled and never returning to his homeworld. After Sybok's insurgency and betrayal of practically everything Sarek held dear he wasn't about to just stand back and let Spock do whatever he wanted with those foolish, emotional humans and their Starfleet.

Even though we really have no idea what their relationship was, I think one has to factor in how Sarek was most likely treated by his Parents and Kin while he was having his love-fest with Humankind, in order to truly understand his ways of parenting.
I can't imagine they were overly thrilled with his choice of 'passion' (which couldn't have just sprung up overnight) and most likely the disdain that they expressed toward him (especially after marrying Amanda) would have had a profound effect upon his later choices with his children.

The whole debacle with Sybok may have been a direct result of him (Sybok) growing up and observing how the rest of the family treated his father.
There must have been something early on in his life that would have started him on the path of rejecting total logic and familial synergy (or lack thereof) probably played a very large part of that.

Sarek may not have understood that seeing ones parent being rejected by the rest of the clan would tend to cause the child to have animosity toward the family, which is not logical per Vulcan teachings.

 

[cooleddie74]

He did go from a Vulcan princess to a human schoolteacher so that can't have been easy for his family to accept. Sybok may have been a rebellious traitor to Vulcan beliefs but at least he was Vulcan.