Burning Dreams
- Thread starter Bobatiel
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marlboro
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Yeah, that is one of my favorite Trek books. Seeing how they played the long game kind of changed my perception of the Vulcans.
I've loved almost all of the modern MU stories.
I've loved almost all of the modern MU stories.
The ending had a contemplative quality IMO - poignant but not sad or tragic.
By the epilogue, it's been 101 years since Pike's birth, and he truly had a full, rich life, and got to spend most of his years with a woman he loved, doing what he saw as important work. I seem to remember a story where he had a son with Vina, but I can't remember it it was mentioned in Burning Dreams.
What more could anyone ask for?
(also, in a way, Pike's life story was far *less tragic* than, say, Kirk's)
By the epilogue, it's been 101 years since Pike's birth, and he truly had a full, rich life, and got to spend most of his years with a woman he loved, doing what he saw as important work. I seem to remember a story where he had a son with Vina, but I can't remember it it was mentioned in Burning Dreams.
What more could anyone ask for?
(also, in a way, Pike's life story was far *less tragic* than, say, Kirk's)
Sadly, Jeffrey Hunter didn't have a long life. Read about the circumstances of his death. Shatner is still around. And still, there are still things to be discovered about Captain Pike. I'm not sure when I get around to read Burning Dreams, but I'm planning to do so.....
You're thinking of issue #61 from DC's second volume of Star Trek, "Door in the Cage." Spock returns to Talos IV to tell Pike about a new medical treatment that could restore his mobility. Spock discovers that Pike and Vina are doing better than expected and have even had a son together. It was a nice story.
IIRC, @garamet said that while she read every appearance Pike had made in the novels up until that point, she didn't get to research the comics that much. (I'm sure they would've been much harder to track down, especially if Margaret wasn't already a comics person.) There's a passing mention of Engineer Moves-With-Burning-Grace from Marvel's Star Trek: Early Voyages series in the book, but that's about it. And Burning Dreams and Early Voyages offer up rather incompatible versions of Christopher Pike's father. I understand that Pike's father
also got at least a mention on this week's Discovery, too. (Please use Spoiler Text if you're going to discuss it in this thread, though. I'm still finishing up the first season, and I really don't want to have anything else spoiled for me.)
Burning Dreams was a heavy book but satisfying read. I found it interesting how Pike was never 100% sure that he still wasn't on Talos and that everything was still an allusion. Wonder if they might make some mention of that in Discovery season 2. Not that they would follow the book but perhaps similarly inspired by the Pilot's events.
Not entirely — Margaret also does a pretty through job recapping virtually all the Early Voyages issues near the beginning of the novel, discussing the missions involving races seen in the comics like the Ngultor and others prior to the 2250s sections of the book.
The comic where Pike and Vina have a son is 1994's "Door in the Cage"
Yeah, suffice it to say, we aren't in a "George and Winona Kirk" situation when it comes to Pike's backstory on DSC.
Yeah, suffice it to say, we aren't in a "George and Winona Kirk" situation when it comes to Pike's backstory on DSC.
Pike mentions his father was a science teacher who also taught a comparative religion course. It's a little ambiguous in the episode how much of his familiarity with Earth religious traditions in the episode is because of that, or if he himself subscribed to a particular faith. (I did react with an exasperated "Goddammit" when that tidbit came up, only exceeded later in the episode when they inexplicably used the Voyager doorbell sound for his ready room. I want to have a talk with whoever manages the sound design on DSC, because their salad-shooter approach to legacy Trek SFX is really disorienting).
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I was the editor on Burning Dreams, and I was the one who recommended the references to the Early Voyages stuff, especially Moves With Burning Grace, as he's my favorite character from that series. (We put him into some of the Lovell stories in Starfleet Corps of Engineers, too.)
Haha, yes, that drives me nuts.
I did notice the "Garbled Radio Message" track from the old sound effects album, though, that was a nice touch.
I would, however, dispute that one point, and argue that Marshak and Culbreath (especially their "Omne" novels for Bantam) were far more fanzine-esque (and harder to follow).
After Saru returns to his homeplanet, these might not be continuity mistakes anymore.
I'm pretty sure the situation on Kaminar, that we saw during "The Brightest Star", was caused by Ferengi.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/could-the-baul-be-ferengi.297874/
I'm pretty sure the situation on Kaminar, that we saw during "The Brightest Star", was caused by Ferengi.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/could-the-baul-be-ferengi.297874/
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Yes, in their way (and so is Killing Time), but I think Black Fire has them beat for the sheer quantity of zineyness packed into one volume. Like I said, it feels like a whole series of novellas rather than just one story.
Seriously? You're still clinging to that bizarre hypothesis based on nothing more than Picard's throwaway line about the Ferengi finding their business associates "tasty" in "Encounter at Farpoint"? A line spoken by a man who, at that point, knew nothing about the Ferengi but rumors (and who was deliberately trying to scare Groppler Zorn off of allying with the Ferengi), and that contradicts literally everything else we've subsequently learned about what the Ferengi are actually like?
And even if there were any actual evidence that the Ferengi ate sentient beings (which there isn't), that wouldn't make them the only sophontophagous species in the galaxy by a long shot, so there'd be no reason to single them out as likely candidates. "Pretty sure" is something you only get to say about a hypothesis when you've considered every other possibility and ruled them all out.
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Christopher, i found a few more clues for the Ferengi since you posted in my thread. And i never pretended that the Ferengi would necessarily eat them. Just that they might have manipulated the situation to their advantage.
They might be taking Kelpiens to either sell them as foodstuff or as slaves.
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I'm sure you did. If you start out with the conclusion you want and cherry-pick the evidence to fit it, you can "prove" any piece of nonsense, from "The Ferengi eat people" to "homeopathy works" to "the Moon landings were faked." It's backward reasoning. It only counts if you start with the evidence and determine which of all possible models is the best fit to all of it. So don't show me that you've found evidence to fit your preconceived notion. Show me that you've tried to disprove your notion and failed. Show me that your idea withstands evidence-based challenges better than all the alternatives. Otherwise you're wasting my time.
Your reasoning is incomprehensible. The original basis for your idea was the vague implication that the Ferengi ate people, and now you're saying that it's still the Ferengi even if you rule the bit that gave you the idea in the first place? That makes no sense.
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First it was simply a theory for me, because the writers of Discovery already used a lot of not as well known stuff from earlier shows. I thought about the Ferengi, because i remembered the dialogue between Picard and Groppler Zorn pretty well.
Then the Voyager episode "False Profits" came to my mind, where Ferengi exploited a Delta Quadrant planet under the pretense to be mythological beings. The way that history and religion is used in both episodes is very similar in my opinion.
But what i think of as the strongest hint for the Ferengi came to my attention some time later. There was a reference to the homeplanet of the Kelpiens as Kelpia during Season 1. The writers changed the planetname into Kaminar for some reason. As the name sounds very similar to Ferenginar, i think in the context of the other mentioned things and the nature of the Ferengi, it makes a lot of sense if the Ba'ul are Ferengi that pretend to be the natural predators of the Kelpians to exploit them.
I never thought of the Ferengi as sophontophages, just that the dialogue in "Encounter at Farpoint" might have inspired the writers to change their plans for the Kelpiens that they may have had, when they developed Season 1. Originally it seemed to me that the Kelpiens are actively hunted, because of their unique sense for danger.
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Like I said, you can "prove" anything by cherrypicking the evidence.
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