Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x02 - "New Eden"

[thribs]

Depends. Voyager's return from the Delta Quadrant with sensor records of the slipstream technology used by Arturis could set off a mad dash in R&D to develop a similar engine, but with the interstellar chaos and rebuildng after the Dominion War and the destruction of Romulus I somehow don't think an untested propulsion technology from the other side of the galaxy will be high on Starfleet's list of priorities.

Nah! Faster travel is always a purity. This is 30 years afterwards remember. Plenty of time has passed.

 

[Vger23]

I love this season so far...but I gave episodes of S1 a "9" as well.

To me Star Trek can be many things. I love away missions and moral dilemmas as much as I liked the war and intrigue tone of last season. The only thing I wouldn't like is just more of the same. I'm really glad S2 is different, but not because I didn't like S1...just because I value Star Trek's ability to have diverse tones and themes.

 

[Longinus]

I hate to throw something controversial out there...it's really not my style...but isn't this kind of like saying "Gene felt that there would be no gender identity anomalies by the 23rd century" or "Gene felt that any sense of unique Asian culture would be gone by the 23rd century?"

I mean...wtf sometimes? Let's just discount something that ~80% of the world's population believes in or derives value from in some way

That's not the same. Star Trek is a positive portrayal of future, and the idea is that people have moved past these sort of superstitions and don't need them anymore. And it is not even that unrealistic, in places where there is good education and standard of living the religion is already dying. USA is anomalously religious, but even there the religion is losing ground.

 

[Vger23]

That's not the same. Star Trek is a positive portrayal of future, and the idea is that people have moved past these sort of superstitions and don't need them anymore. And it is not even that realistic, in places where there is good education and standard of living religion is already dying. USA is anomalously religious, but even there religion is losing ground.

Excellent! You convinced me. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Yes, but many things in the past that weren't canon have now been made so. Especially story points from old novels as well as the animated series.

Perhaps.

Elements from the novelverse may have found their way into mainstream Trek canon, but IIRC, nothing from STO has. (And for that we can be thankful.) Until and unless that happens, it's all irrelevant.

STO was never meant to be binding upon the continuity of Trek in general (not even the novelverse). What passes for continuity in the STO-verse exists solely to further the gameplay. And by that I mean, ramping up the violence whenever they can.

STO is its own little world, nothing more. If something from DSC just happens to look like something from STO, trust me, it's just a coincidence.

 

[Longinus]

My point, that you continuously avoid addressing, and rather continue to purposefully mask, is that YOU CANT SAY ONE IS MORE DESERVING / IMPORTANT / REAL / RATIONAL than the other. There's no frigging hierarchy.

Yes we can. Religion is by definition believing things without proper evidence. So it is perfectly fair to say it is less rational than believing in things there is evidence for.

 

[Nyotarules]

Youngest until Kirk I bet.

When was it stated Kirk was the youngest?

I would agree. If it were people that were originally from Earth I would say let them know. These are there descendants though. That's their home.

Earth is not their home. Its been 200 years, how many Americans descended from Europe, whose ancestors arrived in the 1800's consider Europe their home in 2019?

This is a minor aside, but a letdown about the episode continuing something we saw elsewhere in Trek (like The Ensigns of Command).

This is a colony of transplanted humans - all of whom are descended from a population of Americans small enough to fit into a single medium-sized church. The population expands for 200 years.

Why are there still black people and white people? With such a small population, the entire colony should be mixed race. There's no way the black people would just keep interbreeding with the other black people, and vice versa. Not without some sort of nasty racialized caste system in place.

Most of the black people went North? Jacob's daughter did look bi-racial.

I also like that Pike's father was a scientist who was also religious. I

Traditionally the most famous Western scientists were religious. e.g Sir Isaac Newton

Nope.

It's still a false analogy. AT the end of the day, people still choose their faith.

You might think they have a choice but some people believe they are born X and will die X, and in their theocratic nations they leave their religion on pain of death. Something we do not understand from the comfort of a western democracy where the culture is very individualistic

Why are aliens always abducting us? I'd like to see a whole Star Trek series about us abducting them for a change.

They only abduct Americans

Mount as Pike is sexy as hell, I wish this was an AU so no future Pike stuck in a flotation tank
.

 

[Lonemagpie]

This week's Discovery was good - a solid traditional Trek fanchise show. I meant to say last time, is it my imagination or are they using a lot more TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise background sound effects this season?

Anyway, since I doubt Starfleet believes in ghosts, I presume that mycelial fuckery happened from that flash in the jar - and is everybody else assuming that Michael is going to end up being the Red Angel, or is it just me?

Still, looking forward to Klingons and Michelle Yeoh next week...

 

[Longinus]

Overall I liked it. Felt very Trek. However, I have to say Pike's interpretation of the Prime Directive was pretty bizarre though; the ancestors of these people were abducted just a few years before the first contact, they deserved to know the truth, especially as the truth was something some of them had already suspected. Furthermore, I didn't like how little discussion there was on the matter, this episode would have been improved by a TNG style conference room scene where the matter was thoroughly debated!

Also, as entertaining as Tilly's sixth sense experience was, I fear the whole spore ghosts and angels thing will turn out to be painfully stupid. I hope I'm wrong and they do something really cool with it. I too thought that the angels might be Iconians. It would kinda explain the spore dimension if it was actually a part of their gateway system and Stamets had managed to access it. Then the spore drive can be removed by the Iconians banning everyone from the network.

 

[Greg Cox]

Furthermore, I didn't like how little discussion there was on the matter, this episode would have been improved by a TNG style conference room scene where the matter was thoroughly debated!

No! No conference room scenes!

 

[cooleddie74]

Nah! Faster travel is always a purity. This is 30 years afterwards remember. Plenty of time has passed.

20.

And eh, we'll see.

 

[GeorgeKirk]

Also, as entertaining as Tilly's sixth sense experience was, I fear the whole spore ghosts and angels thing will turn out to be painfully stupid. I hope I'm wrong and they do something really cool with it.

As much as I'm enjoying Disco's new direction, I'm pretty much assuming that will be the case. Mystery boxes almost invariably have something stupid in them.

 

[cooleddie74]

Spore ghosts? Nobody tell Beverly Crusher's great-grandmother.

 

[Spider]

Not being a big fan of Discovery, I just got around to watching the first two episodes for this season. The first episode sucked, I didn't even finish it. The second episode was wonderful! I actually felt like I was watching Star Trek! It was a good piece of writing and the new Capt Pike is a nice likable Star Trek Captain. Hope he gets his own show so I don't have to spend any more time than necessary with the Discovery crew. I can't stand any of the characters on the original Discovery except for Lorca, Georgio and Ash.

 

[Kane_Steel]

6/10 Flawed, but good for the most part.

The Positives:

- Have to agree with most that Pike elevated this episode. Anson is killing it. He should have been the Captain from the start, and continue as a regular if future seasons happen.

- The human settlement plot was derivative, but enjoyable. Nice nostalgic throwback to previous Trek.

- I appreciate the religious allegories. Pike 'dying' to save those people, disappearing and then returning again to speak to the man. I wonder if it was three days later.

- Looks like the 'bridge crew' won't be anything more than glorified extras. This episode presented an opportunity to give the navigator some focus and development, but the 'character' was still just used as a vehicle to deliver exposition. They all seem like very limited actors, so this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Personally, I'd prefer some of them be killed off and replaced with actual characters in future seasons if they happen. Having this many glorified recurring extras just makes the cast seem hollow. Especially after we've seen ensemble casts done so well in previous Trek.

The Negatives:

- Tilly. Have to agree with most that she needs to be toned down. Her subplot dragged down the episode.

- Jamaican Tilly. Possibly the worst guest 'actor' I've ever seen on Trek... yikes.

- All the Spore Drive Mushroom nonsense. Clearly the Red Angels and the Spore 'Ghosts' are connected to the Mycilial Network. I anticipate this is going to be stupid AF. It's also setting up the magical resurrection of Hugh Culber. Hopefully this doesn't dive too heavy into science-fantasy, over science-fiction.


All in all, the new elements of S2 were great, while the more divisive and questionable elements of S1 that are still present on the series, dragged this episode down.

6/10

Next week:

Spoiler

Looks like we're revisiting some of the most terrible aspects of S1, with L'Rell, AshVoq, and the Cringey Emperor Georgiou. Klingorcs are back as well. Can these aspects be salvaged? We will see.

 

[rocketdave]

Overall I liked it. Felt very Trek. However, I have to say Pike's interpretation of the Prime Directive was pretty bizarre though; the ancestors of these people were abducted just a few years before the first contact, they deserved to know the truth, especially as the truth was something some of them had already suspected. Furthermore, I didn't like how little discussion there was on the matter, this episode would have been improved by a TNG style conference room scene where the matter was thoroughly debated!

Yeah, I'm still a little iffy about whether Pike was right or not. What if the New Eden residents weren't on a distant planet, but were living underground on Earth in some previously undiscovered bunker or system of caves that their ancestors had fled to in order to escape World War 3? Does the Prime Directive still apply then?

 

[DaveyNY]

Yeah, I'm still a little iffy about whether Pike was right or not. What if the New Eden residents weren't on a distant planet, but were living underground on Earth in some previously undiscovered bunker or system of caves that their ancestors fled to in order to escape World War 3? Does the Prime Directive still apply then?

If those folks chose to continue to live underground, I would suppose so.
There's no way in either case that the "Society" in question would continue on the same course, since just by making contact and being exposed to something beyond their knowledge base, new ideas and realities would be introduced.
It's a Catch-22 situation.
Only time would discern the difference.

At this point in Trek time, the Prime Directive has not yet been established to be a Total Non-Interference Directive.
If it were so, then the only option would be to just walk away.

I guess this should be put in the same boat as when Data answered a call for Help from the little alien girl, in "PEN PALS".

Once Discovery arrived at the planet and picked up the distress call, the aim of the mission changed.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I gave it a solid 9. They really Trekked the Trekked on this one.

 

[JD]

Yes, but many things in the past that weren't canon have now been made so. Especially story points from old novels as well as the animated series.

Wait, when did this happen? I know about things like Uhura and Sulu's names first appearing in books, and the first Kelvinverse movie taking a tiny bit of inspiration from the young Kirk books that came out back in the '80s, but I haven't come across any specific plot points from the books that have been added to the canon.

CBS collaborates closely with Star Trek Online, and there's no reason they can't use the idea and design of the Iconians. Besides, the similarity is almost certainly too close to be anything else.

CBS collaborates just as closely with all of the tie ins, and they've never done this before, I don't see any reason to believe they would do it now.

In that case it could be the Preservers or the First Federation.

Both are more than capable of saving those people.

The Preservers make a big point about teaching the folly of the Prime Directive, there is also a link to the Mirror Universe but anything more would be a spoiler for the books.

When have we seen the First Federation do this kind of thing?

 

[Zod]

I just finished and I loved this episode. I would give it a 9/10

I have always liked these parallel human development stories. My favorite was the Voyager episode with amelia earhart.

I love that this season so far it feels like more of the bridge crew are getting involved. I loved that they gave that man the power cell.

Overall great!