Question: Where is it explicitly said that Kirk took command immediately after Pike?

[BillJ]

Not sure why that would be true. The reason they know their weapons won't penetrate is from scanning the material.

If your phaser beam can't cut through it, how would a sensor beam penetrate it? I would imagine they are all types of electro-magnetic waves. Scanning it and the beam being able to scan the surface to a degree that you can tell your phasers can't penetrate it is different than your sensor beam actually penetrating it and telling you what is actually there.

That is my bullshit explanation, and I'm sticking to it!

 

[Nerys Myk]

If your phaser beam can't cut through it, how would a sensor beam penetrate it? I would imagine they are all types of electro-magnetic waves. Scanning it and the beam being able to scan the surface to a degree that you can tell your phasers can't penetrate it is different than your sensor beam actually penetrating it and telling you what is actually there.

That is my bullshit explanation, and I'm sticking to it!

The same way they penetrate shields and all sorts of materials. Any how, the Kelvans are the Feds buddies. Surely they would share. The Kelvan colony might even be a Fed member by the 24th Century

 

[Nyotarules]

If you want to turn off your brain, more power to you. I like for things to actually make sense.

you watch a show where you left sense behind to accept that aliens can make babies with human women and everyone speaks english

 

[Nerys Myk]

If you want to turn off your brain, more power to you. I like for things to actually make sense.

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[fireproof78]

This could be because people have seen the quality of the writing of season one and, even if they like the show, know these writers could fuck this all up.

And? Any writer can "fuck" something up no matter what.

I would prefer to be optimistic rather than sitting their waiting for the bad. Especially in this franchise!

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

Nope, go back and watch the movie again.
She's truly surprised when he tells her he used it as a "shortcut" to get the device to actually work.

This conversation didn't happen between David and Carol Marcus -- it was between David and Saavik in TSFS.

 

[DaveyNY]

This conversation didn't happen between David and Carol Marcus -- it was between David and Saavik in TSFS.

Oopsie... misremembered....

But since he did state that it was a 'shortcut' of sorts, I rather doubt that he let his mom in on what he did.
She certainly would not have approved if she knew.

 

[Noname Given]

Oopsie... misremembered....

But since he did state that it was a 'shortcut' of sorts, I rather doubt that he let his mom in on what he did.
She certainly would not have approved if she knew.

How do you know? Again:
- Mother and Son
- She made the original pitch to Starfleet and was involved in the 'Genesis Cave' creation in ST:IITWoK
- Carol Marcus: "What we did there, we did in a Day..."

My point: She was definitely involved in the creation and testing. I seriously doubt David could have hidden it from her. Ergo: She knew and agreed to it get the Genesis Device working.

 

[DaveyNY]

How do you know? Again:
- Mother and Son
- She made the original pitch to Starfleet and was involved in the 'Genesis Cave' creation in ST:IITWoK
- Carol Marcus: "What we did there, we did in a Day..."

My point: She was definitely involved in the creation and testing. I seriously doubt David could have hidden it from her. Ergo: She knew and agreed to it get the Genesis Device working.

David said to Saavik ...(paraphrase)... "I used Protomatter" ... He didn't say "We used Protomatter".
He took complete credit for it.

I know we didn't get to see a lot of background on Carol, but from what we did see, I just don't believe that she would have agreed to use "...an unstable substance which every ethical scientist in the galaxy has denounced as dangerously unpredictable."

As I said before, David indicated he did it to solve the major hurdle of getting the device to actually work.

His mother was the guiding force and face of the project to StarFleet, but it's pretty obvious to me that David was the 'Brains' of the project.
And it's also pretty obvious to me that his distrust of "the Military" didn't just spring up suddenly when they were unknowingly contacted by the Reliant with Khan in control.
He went into the project with that mindset.
(his mother even tells him she won't subscribe to his interpretation of Starfleet, which is another indicator of their ethical differences)

Once he figured out that protomatter would work and decided to use it, it's highly probable that he just kept that little tidbit to himself.
He wasn't going to let StarFleet in on it and kept it from his mom both due to that reasoning and because he knew she wouldn't have let him continue.

Anyway, that's how it see it.

 

[Irishman]

Robert April's captaincy is not canon, though.

It is canon via the Animated Series, and if we're already accepting limited Holodecks in the time of TAS, (effectively an unbroadcast season 4 of TOS, in terms of timing and creative intent), then accepting the reference to Captain April isn't such a stretch.

 

[BillJ]

I know we didn't get to see a lot of background on Carol, but from what we did see, I just don't believe that she would have agreed to use "...an unstable substance which every ethical scientist in the galaxy has denounced as dangerously unpredictable."

Then she was incompetent for not knowing what was going on with the project she was the leader of. I'd rather she know about the Protomatter.

 

[DaveyNY]

Then she was incompetent for not knowing what was going on with the project she was involved in.

Yeah, because every mother knows exactly what their child is doing, behind their back.

 

[BillJ]

Yeah, because every mother knows exactly what their child is doing behind their back.

He reported to her. How did she not see the problems that he used Protomatter to fix?

And her being a mother has nothing to do with her either being in on it, or being incompetent.

 

[DaveyNY]

He reported to her. How did she not see the problems that he used Protomatter to fix?

Your still ignoring the fact that David knew Protomatter was a BIG problem with the Entire Federation Scientific Community ... and used it anyway.
He obviously didn't consult with her beforehand or she would have said no, why the hell would he let her in on his 'dirty-little-secret' at any point after that?
Nothing Carol says or does during TWoK suggests to me that she is the kind of person that would go along with using that stuff.
In fact, their conversation I described above about StarFleet, indicates exactly the opposite.

 

[Irishman]

It's not over, no, but we know Discovery winds up 1000 years parked in some kind of dust cloud with a bored AI watching Fred Astaire movies waiting for someone to come back that never does.

I really need to watch "calypso "!

 

[BillJ]

He obviously didn't consult with her beforehand or she would have said no, why the hell would he let her in on his 'dirty-little-secret' at any point after that?

How would she not know there was a problem with Genesis "that might take years, or never" to solve? And if she knew of those problems, wouldn't she have been even more involved trying to solve them? If David solved them, wouldn't she want to know how he had solved them?

DAVID: But it was the only way to solve certain problems.
SAAVIK: So, like your father, you changed the rules.
DAVID: If I hadn't, it might have been years, ...or never!

I'm sorry, whether through incompetence or being complicit to David's actions, she is just as much responsible as he is for the Protomatter being used as a shortcut.

In fact, their conversation I described above about StarFleet, indicates exactly the opposite.

In fact, people that act high and mighty are usually the ones with dirty laundry they are hiding.

 

[Irishman]

If you want to turn off your brain, more power to you. I like for things to actually make sense.

Like for? Or need for? Cuz if it's the latter, you might be doomed to be forever vexed by what you see onscreen.

 

[Irishman]

The same way they penetrate shields and all sorts of materials. Any how, the Kelvans are the Feds buddies. Surely they would share. The Kelvan colony might even be a Fed member by the 24th Century

Maybe the Kelvans will be part of the new Picard show.

 

[DaveyNY]

While David was on Regulus I using Protomatter in the Genesis Matrix, Saavik was on the Enterprise training for command. She has nothing to do with anything.

It seems like Saavik is finding out for the first time what's going on when David tells her. And once they're on Genesis, and the Grissom is destroyed, and the Klingons are after them, what can she do?

It doesn't seem like Esteban knew. It doesn't seem like Kirk knew.

Kirk: "David, what went wrong?"
David: "I want wrong."
Kirk: "David, I don't understand."
David: "I'm sorry, sir. Genesis doesn't work. I can't believe they'd kill us for it."

Kirk has no idea what's going on and it's not like the Klingons would've given David time to explain it. Do Kruge or his cronies seem like the listening, patient type? I don't think so.

I think when Kingbob! said "she" he was referring to Carol Marcus.
I don't know why he used the Saavik quote.

How would she not know there was a problem with Genesis "that might take years, or never" to solve? And if she knew of those problems, wouldn't she have been even more involved trying to solve them? If David solved them, wouldn't she want to know how he had solved them?



I'm sorry, whether through incompetence or being complicit to David's actions, she is just as much responsible as he is for the Protomatter being used as a shortcut.



In fact, people that act high and mighty are usually the ones with dirty laundry they are hiding.

David was the one acting "high & mighty" his mother was disagreeing with him.
You've interpreted that scene incorrectly.
She's saying that she believes that StarFleet will act ethically and responsibly with their work.
Someone who believes that, is not likely to take Unethical Shortcuts to complete one's life's work.

You are still ignoring the fact that David was the one who "made the decision" to use Protomater.
He essentially tells Saavik that he didn't consult with anybody because he most likely knew that there were members of the team that would strongly object. (including his mom)
"I went wrong" is another indicator that he didn't tell anybody else.

And yes, he is the one with the "dirty laundry" not Carol.

She does bare a little responsibility for relying on her son to be ethical, I'm not disagreeing with you there.
I'm just saying that David bares the brunt of that responsibility, both because of using the Protomatter and the fact he didn't inform his mother.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I guess the next question is: when will we actually see April? I'm sure he'll show up at some point on Discovery.

I had this unusual idea:

Michael Palin.

(Yes, that one.)

Of course, this assumes that DSC will go with what the novelverse has established about April (that he's an Englishman), and in fact it's probably likely that they wouldn't. But if...IF...they do, I can't get the image of Palin out of my head.

Not the goofy jokester he was during his Python days, of course, but the affable, genial TV host we know from his nature specials.