Way too seriously.
Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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The newest issue of Marvel's ongoing Poe Dameron comic series reveals what the pilots from TFA who didn't return were doing during the events of TLJ.
Well, this was a terrible movie. Can't say that about any other Star Wars film.
At one point I looked at my phone expecting that we were close to three hours in - and the damned thing had only been going for two hours.
I liked Rose. I liked Leia. I liked Luke's participation, pretty much, except for some of the dilatory and strange nonsense like the green milk scene. But the damned thing just dragged on endlessly, with no direction or momentum.
For a loud film with something blowing up every few minutes it was strangely static.
Kylo Ren might as well be Biff Tannen.
I rather like that other than Ren the new core characters are all common folk - not a royal heir or Jedi messiah among them. But then, Han Solo was always my guy.
At one point I looked at my phone expecting that we were close to three hours in - and the damned thing had only been going for two hours.
I liked Rose. I liked Leia. I liked Luke's participation, pretty much, except for some of the dilatory and strange nonsense like the green milk scene. But the damned thing just dragged on endlessly, with no direction or momentum.
For a loud film with something blowing up every few minutes it was strangely static.
Kylo Ren might as well be Biff Tannen.
I rather like that other than Ren the new core characters are all common folk - not a royal heir or Jedi messiah among them. But then, Han Solo was always my guy.
While I disagree most likely as to the level of “terrible”, some fair and valid points were made. It’s strange; as derivative as TFA was, it moved at quite the pace, while I agree TLJ, with its off the beaten path exploration, dragged a lot
A nice change, that.
Finally caught the film on Netflix last week. I only read the first dozen pages of this thread, so I may be treading on well-worn territory.
This new series is a bit of a mess. They're trying way too hard to ape the original trilogy, which makes sense in release order, to contrast with the prequels, but doesn't make a lick of sense in episode order, where this trilogy is falling right after the OT. It feels like there's a missing trilogy between the original and this one that tells the story of how the OT heroes started putting things back together but it all went wrong.
The whole gambling planet/codebreaker side quest was ridiculous. It's like, remember how the original film opened with the Star Destroyer chasing down and capturing Leia's ship; then the droids went to Tatooine and met Luke; then Luke met Obi-Wan and began his hero's journey; and they hired Han and Chewie and tried going to Alderaan, only to get involved in rescuing the Princess? Now imagine that while all that other stuff was going on, the Star Destroyer was still chasing Leia's ship the entire time!
I really liked the Luke stuff though. And while Yoda's appearance was generally a nice moment, he talked forwards way too much. Write better backwards dialogue, any fanboy could, hmm?
This new series is a bit of a mess. They're trying way too hard to ape the original trilogy, which makes sense in release order, to contrast with the prequels, but doesn't make a lick of sense in episode order, where this trilogy is falling right after the OT. It feels like there's a missing trilogy between the original and this one that tells the story of how the OT heroes started putting things back together but it all went wrong.
The whole gambling planet/codebreaker side quest was ridiculous. It's like, remember how the original film opened with the Star Destroyer chasing down and capturing Leia's ship; then the droids went to Tatooine and met Luke; then Luke met Obi-Wan and began his hero's journey; and they hired Han and Chewie and tried going to Alderaan, only to get involved in rescuing the Princess? Now imagine that while all that other stuff was going on, the Star Destroyer was still chasing Leia's ship the entire time!
I really liked the Luke stuff though. And while Yoda's appearance was generally a nice moment, he talked forwards way too much. Write better backwards dialogue, any fanboy could, hmm?
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I honestly don't think so. As much as I enjoy Star Wars fan films the Yoda dialog is not a strong suit.
Never watched fan films, so I'll take your word for it.
Write better backwards dialogue I could! Get the knack of it one can!
Write better backwards dialogue I could! Get the knack of it one can!
Doubtful, this is.
Knock my talent you should not!
True, but I'll simply reply from the grand master of them all:
"Talk to the hand you must."
With all due respect and credit to Trey Stokes.
Read my screenplay you will not? Disappointing this is.
A screenplay I have. Impossible to read another.
I finally watched TLJ on Netflix, this was only the second time I've seen, and I loved it just as much this time as I did the first time.
Watching it with some of the criticisms in mind, I found a few ways for me to counter them.
I still like the humor, to me it really wasn't that different from what we got in the other movies. They had had their goofy moment, and some slapstick here and there.
Watching the beginning again, I really do think it is understandable that Holdo didn't trust Poe. In the opening he proved that he couldn't be trusted when he ignored Leia's order and ended up getting an entire wing of bombers. Since we don't see any more later in the movie, that was probably all of the bombers they had. Pretty much every action he takes after that only confirms this assessment.
I still like how they handled Luke too. Him running off after what happened to Ben, really fits in pretty well with him rushing off to try to save Han and Leia is The Empire Strikes Back. Both are highly emotional reactions, without a lot of thought to what exactly the potential consequences are.
Watching it with some of the criticisms in mind, I found a few ways for me to counter them.
I still like the humor, to me it really wasn't that different from what we got in the other movies. They had had their goofy moment, and some slapstick here and there.
Watching the beginning again, I really do think it is understandable that Holdo didn't trust Poe. In the opening he proved that he couldn't be trusted when he ignored Leia's order and ended up getting an entire wing of bombers. Since we don't see any more later in the movie, that was probably all of the bombers they had. Pretty much every action he takes after that only confirms this assessment.
I still like how they handled Luke too. Him running off after what happened to Ben, really fits in pretty well with him rushing off to try to save Han and Leia is The Empire Strikes Back. Both are highly emotional reactions, without a lot of thought to what exactly the potential consequences are.
Yeah, Luke's reaction to what happened with Ben makes more and more sense the more I think about it (and it made plenty of sense to me from the get-go.)
One of Luke's defining characteristics is his sense of responsibility to others. Which sounds like a good thing, but it's largely born out of loss and survivor guilt.
Just take what happens In ANH: his Aunt and Uncle (who may as well have been his parents, from an emotional standpoint) are murdered and his home destroyed while he was off screwing around with a wayward droid and having story time with the local hermit. Said hermit immediately takes up a mentor role, but is also later "killed" in order to give Luke a chance to get away, leaving him alone with three near total strangers (seriously, he'd have known Han, Chewie & Leia for like 12 hours tops at this point) with nowhere in the galaxy to call home. He's then briefly reunited with his best childhood friend...who is also then killed while trying to cover his bombing run.
Part of me can't help but think that the smile plastered on Luke's face in the award ceremony is entirely for show and if he lets the facade slip, he'd just curl up in the fetal position and start sobbing.
As mentioned above in ESB: what gets Luke moving is the idea that people are suffering *because of him*. They were targeted because of him, very nearly killed because of him and to top it all off his rescue attempt was a disaster that did nothing to help their situation and then *they* had to come back and rescue *him* from his own stupidity....oh and one of the few things from his past that he still held precious and core to his identity and purpose to become a Jedi; the image of his father as the great and noble Jedi war hero, is ripped asunder in the cruellest way possible. That's got to have him questioning the true implications of his heritage.
Finally in Jedi, the *one* thing that sets him off into berserk mode, that very nearly sends him over the edge and into the dark side is a threat against Leia. Not to kill her, but to corrupt her in his place. Spotting the theme yet?
So yeah, when it comes to TLJ, Luke is a man with deep emotional scars and a tendency to blame himself, whether or not something is truly even his fault. So when Ben betrays him, it's going to bring so much of that flooding back. Letting Leia down. Repeating the mistakes of Obi Wan & Anakin. Loosing a family member and in the process having his illusions of them shattered and all of it on his watch. His responsibility. His fault.
Combine that with 20+ years of piecing together Jedi lore & history, and coming to the conclusion that in it's final years the Order became corrupt, misguided, incompetent and unworthy of the legacy of the Jedi. It's entirely believable that instead of repeating his previous mistake of rushing in, he'd instead conclude that his involvement can only make things worse and runs away to finally put an end the the Jedi, and to the cycle of war and corruption that surrounded them...except he can't quite bring himself to do it.
Despite all that's happened and all that he says to Rey, part of him deep down still believes in it all. He's not defeated, nor has he really given up, he's stuck in a self imposed limbo. Unable to go back or go forwards. Who knows how many times he put on those ceremonial robes to go burn down the library once and for all...only to relent and spend the rest of the day on the clifftops staring out across the ocean. A dozen? A hundred? A thousand? I mean he was there for 5 years give or take. He'd have been done with it long ago if he'd truly given up.
One of Luke's defining characteristics is his sense of responsibility to others. Which sounds like a good thing, but it's largely born out of loss and survivor guilt.
Just take what happens In ANH: his Aunt and Uncle (who may as well have been his parents, from an emotional standpoint) are murdered and his home destroyed while he was off screwing around with a wayward droid and having story time with the local hermit. Said hermit immediately takes up a mentor role, but is also later "killed" in order to give Luke a chance to get away, leaving him alone with three near total strangers (seriously, he'd have known Han, Chewie & Leia for like 12 hours tops at this point) with nowhere in the galaxy to call home. He's then briefly reunited with his best childhood friend...who is also then killed while trying to cover his bombing run.
Part of me can't help but think that the smile plastered on Luke's face in the award ceremony is entirely for show and if he lets the facade slip, he'd just curl up in the fetal position and start sobbing.
As mentioned above in ESB: what gets Luke moving is the idea that people are suffering *because of him*. They were targeted because of him, very nearly killed because of him and to top it all off his rescue attempt was a disaster that did nothing to help their situation and then *they* had to come back and rescue *him* from his own stupidity....oh and one of the few things from his past that he still held precious and core to his identity and purpose to become a Jedi; the image of his father as the great and noble Jedi war hero, is ripped asunder in the cruellest way possible. That's got to have him questioning the true implications of his heritage.
Finally in Jedi, the *one* thing that sets him off into berserk mode, that very nearly sends him over the edge and into the dark side is a threat against Leia. Not to kill her, but to corrupt her in his place. Spotting the theme yet?
So yeah, when it comes to TLJ, Luke is a man with deep emotional scars and a tendency to blame himself, whether or not something is truly even his fault. So when Ben betrays him, it's going to bring so much of that flooding back. Letting Leia down. Repeating the mistakes of Obi Wan & Anakin. Loosing a family member and in the process having his illusions of them shattered and all of it on his watch. His responsibility. His fault.
Combine that with 20+ years of piecing together Jedi lore & history, and coming to the conclusion that in it's final years the Order became corrupt, misguided, incompetent and unworthy of the legacy of the Jedi. It's entirely believable that instead of repeating his previous mistake of rushing in, he'd instead conclude that his involvement can only make things worse and runs away to finally put an end the the Jedi, and to the cycle of war and corruption that surrounded them...except he can't quite bring himself to do it.
Despite all that's happened and all that he says to Rey, part of him deep down still believes in it all. He's not defeated, nor has he really given up, he's stuck in a self imposed limbo. Unable to go back or go forwards. Who knows how many times he put on those ceremonial robes to go burn down the library once and for all...only to relent and spend the rest of the day on the clifftops staring out across the ocean. A dozen? A hundred? A thousand? I mean he was there for 5 years give or take. He'd have been done with it long ago if he'd truly given up.
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Well written. 
Which was the entire point.
Star Wars is and has always been cyclical; expecting it not to be is just foolhardy.
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