Save for how characters in universe react to the feat.
Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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And yet he didn't seem to strain at all when he projected himself to Ezra and Ahsoka in the Jedi temple on Lothal. Maybe it wasn't a great distance? Again, saying weight ain't no thang while distance matters is very arbitrary. But, I guess it's sorta like the age old question "how fast can a ship go?" Speed of plot and all.
Yeah, it is the plot. Because Yoda does go on about the "difference only in your mind" and yet has to actively strain himself to stop something from falling on Obi-Wan and Anakin. That's my point. Yoda clearly has to strain at some points, and doesn't at others. So, there is more to it than just "distance."
Problem is, the "speed of plot" routine is not logical and is a plot hole... one that is simply glossed over to further the story. So, since it is already established that old man Yoda can project himself across who knows how far, as well as Snoke it seems since he was powerful enough to link Rey and Ben, it kinda makes Luke look weak. But, we don't know all the facts of the case so it can be overlooked. In the end, there is no correct answer.
Edit: for shits and giggles, i checked out the distance from Dagobah to Lothal and Crait to Ahch-To. In a 2D view, Lothal and Dagobah are definitely a further distance away from one another than the others.
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Here's the thing. It's not necessarily a plot hole as we, as noted, don't have all the information, and it is already demonstrated the use of the Force can require more strain or less strain depending on the circumstances, as illustrated by Yoda and Force lifting.
I don't know how it make Luke look weak, since we see Force Lightning used and that clearly overwhelms a lot of Jedi, and yet we don't demand Jedi use that power.
Straining to use the Force to do larger things, can happen, if you aren't mentally prepared. Yoda had to catch that stone pillar with very short notice. If he'd been moving it at his leisure I'm sure he would have been much more relaxed.
There is definitely a "magnitude of action" limit that varies from person to person depending on how strong their personal connection to the force is, but it seems to me that the biggest action you can take should happen while calm and centered, and if you are straining you are handicapping yourself.
There is definitely a "magnitude of action" limit that varies from person to person depending on how strong their personal connection to the force is, but it seems to me that the biggest action you can take should happen while calm and centered, and if you are straining you are handicapping yourself.
No it isn't, their ships just move really fast.
According to the new canon the galaxy is over 100,000 light years in diameter,
https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_galaxy
In the EU it was around 120k.
The thing is Yoda was projecting form one place really strong in the force, to another place really strong in the force. Probably made it easier. He was also using the 'World Between Worlds' to do it.
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I've been wondering about that too. All we so far is that Luke knew he was falling under the Dark Side's ifluence, but I don't think it's been established if he knew who was responsible.
I don't see how linking to very Force strong individuals compares to projecting yourself through the Force, that's two totally different things.
As for Luke looking weak, I think he probably was. He hadn't used The Force in years, possibly somewhere around a decade, so his tolerance was for these kinds of massive uses of the Force was probably lower than it would have been if he was at his most powerful. I think this is at least partly what Hamill was referring to when he compared Luke to a reformed drug addict who used again.
It's really not worth getting bogged down in the minutia of how force powers work, what takes how much effort or anything along those lines. Jedi and Sith aren't D&D characters with stats and class based rule sets. They're mythic fairy tale characters in adventure movies, so just as the space ships travel at the speed of plot, so do their heroic acts require exactly as much effort as is dramatically required for each scene.
Did the boy Arthur grimace and strain when he pulled the sword from the stone, or did it slide out effortlessly? Doesn't matter. Each interpretation is equally valid depending on how you choose to tell the story.
However, if one absolutely *must* apply some logic to the effort required to use for force to do this and that, or whatever; try not to think of it in terms of physical effort, but a combination of both mental and spiritual. How easy it is to concentrate and centre oneself is entirely situational and unique to each individual in any possible circumstance. What is difficult one day, could be effortless the next. It all depends on what else is going on in that person's mind at the time.
Did the boy Arthur grimace and strain when he pulled the sword from the stone, or did it slide out effortlessly? Doesn't matter. Each interpretation is equally valid depending on how you choose to tell the story.
However, if one absolutely *must* apply some logic to the effort required to use for force to do this and that, or whatever; try not to think of it in terms of physical effort, but a combination of both mental and spiritual. How easy it is to concentrate and centre oneself is entirely situational and unique to each individual in any possible circumstance. What is difficult one day, could be effortless the next. It all depends on what else is going on in that person's mind at the time.
^ Yep.
In addition, it could also depend on the tension between light and dark. It could be much easier to do something in training than to do the same thing when confronting one's foe.
Light side users also have the problem of needing to avoid feelings that lead to the dark side, feelings that seem to only enhance a dark side user's power.
In addition, it could also depend on the tension between light and dark. It could be much easier to do something in training than to do the same thing when confronting one's foe.
Light side users also have the problem of needing to avoid feelings that lead to the dark side, feelings that seem to only enhance a dark side user's power.
Jeez ... "From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker" should've been "From the Tragedy of Luke Skywalker"
Well it did become the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker so you're not wrong.
Tragedy is often a key ingredient in adventure to some degree or another, especially when you get into the ancient heroic epics. Both in the hero's beginnings and their ending.
Indeed, it's just another way in which TLJ's treatment of Luke is entirely consistent with how Lucas sought to incorporate the monomyth/hero's journey concepts into the saga. Beowulf, Gilgamesh, Arthur and their like all experienced some kind of fall from grace later in life, and often born of folly at that. Why should Luke be any different?
Indeed, it's just another way in which TLJ's treatment of Luke is entirely consistent with how Lucas sought to incorporate the monomyth/hero's journey concepts into the saga. Beowulf, Gilgamesh, Arthur and their like all experienced some kind of fall from grace later in life, and often born of folly at that. Why should Luke be any different?
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Luke's "tragic" character downfall should have reflected his own personality. His bouts of rage in "A New Hope" and near murder of his Anakin in "Return of the Jedi", along with his rash decision to rush to Leia and Han's aid in "The Empire Strikes Back" reflected Luke's unpleasant side of his personality . . . at least to me. I do not feel the same about his near action against Kylo Ren and his behavior in "The Last Jedi". His behavior smacked more of Obi-Wan than himself to me.
I think I already pretty thoroughly illustrated exactly how Luke's various character flaws and history in the OT organically mesh with what happened prior to the ST.
Also: "Rage"? I don't think so. Not in ANH anyway. Irritation, mild frustration and disappointment are about as close as gets to being legitimately angry at anything. And I'd hardly call what went down in RotJ a "near murder". I mean, it's not murder when the other guy is actively trying (in the very least) to do you serious harm with a lethal weapon. Doubly so when said individual has a history of removing your extremities and is making threats against your immediate family.
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I think that's the point is that it is reminiscent of his own teacher's failings and he repeated some of the issues. I think it is absolutely consistent with Luke as established in the OT, being brash and impulsive, as well as the Jedi's own negative tendencies in their reaction to the Dark Side. We see Luke's own foibles and the weaknesses of the Jedi. Far from out of character I think it is perfectly within character.
Well and the person Luke did try to murder (Palpatine) was asking for it...specifically. He asked Luke to strike him down will all of his hatred. Luke was just doing what the old man more or less ordered him to do...so that he assisted suicide...right? Just Vader blocked it (and Palpatine laughed).
How is having a knee-jerk temptation to stab Kylo not ‘homicidal’ and ‘rash’?
Obi-Wan didn’t mutilate Anakin out of panic, or a flash of anger. He traveled to Mustafah to assasinate him, watched him burn, and never regretted it in the decades following. Then played the long game, until he could make another go at it. Via proxy. His propensity for ‘stabby, stabby, stab, stab’ was never written as a flaw.
Despite it, and his utter uselessness as a proto-parent, helping to fuck everyone over for decades. Also his decades-long grudge against Anakin leading him to try and gaslight Luke into unwittingly killing his own father, accidentally letting Luke be attracted to his own twin, and giving Luke a brief breakdown.
In fact, the only thing Obi-Wan is ever called out on is for being a dishonest butt, and not liking flying. Both of which are framed as being understandable. If you want a character that’s intended to be flawless, Obi-Wan is probably the closest Star Wars has.
Except for maybe in TLJ. Where Yoda finally outright says that yes, the Jedi and Luke’s teachers made some massive fuck ups (and that’s fine.)
Which is consistent with the presentation in the PT, so not sure of the problem here. This is very much consistent with the saga's overall presentation of the story from the PT through the OT and on. The Jedi are not as successful as initially thought. And now, with the ST we are facing down the flaws of the OT heroes, just like what happened with Yoda and Obi-Wan in the PT. Still upset over Obi-Wan.
Random trivia that changes nothing: There was a line cut from RotJ in which (during the deathbed scene) Yoda claims that Obi Wan would have told Luke the truth years ago had Yoda let him. Come to think of it though, even without that line one could still very easily cast Yoda as the mastermind of the "send Anakin's children to kill him" plot, with Obi Wan being the "I'm just following orders" guy.
Of course that all depends on whether we really believe Luke and/or Leia killing the Sith was ever the thrust of Yoda's plan. One could take the position that all he really sought to do was help re-balance the force by making sure the new generation of Jedi move back to the Order's original intent and not the corrupt apparatus it became. A process that could have taken years, decades or generations before all was set right.
Him telling Luke he must confront Vader again could have less to do about eliminating the Sith and more to do with Luke needing to face this trial for his own growth and benefit. Nixing the Sith would just be a happy little bonus.
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