Ezri or Jadzia

[Armus]

I'm pretty sure it's now had, not has. Her weight has been up and down the last few years it seems. Dunno where it is now. Nana Visitor still looks pretty smoking though.

When I was watching DS9, I was in HS and college, so most of the female cast was just too old for me to relate to as sexual beings at that time. Until Ezri came on in the last season I mean.

I thought Mirror Kira was very sexy in her first episode, before she became a fetish cartoon character.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Can we please not have this thread devolve into a "who's hotter?" thread. Thanks.

Could you provide more guidance? Obviously, actresses were cast because of their appearances, and I think that we can discuss that without making this a "she's a babe" converstation.

 

[TheSeeker]

Obviously, actresses were cast because of their appearances, and I think that we can discuss that without making this a "she's a babe" converstation.

I don't have a problem as it relates to casting decisions, but when people begin talking about an actor's weight fluctuations and posting pictures it starts getting a little iffy. There was nothing wrong with the picture posted, but I think it’s pretty easy to see how it could escalate into people trying to one-up each other with who looks better. I just want everyone to be aware of this and avoid going down that path. Thanks.

 

[mlbach]

Thank you

 

[Infern0]

It's a tough one but I have to lean towards Jadzia. They did a LOT with Ezri in her single season, but Jadzia was an OG on DS9.

I also miss Jadzia in the novels, Ezri gets a lot of coverage in the books and I wish Jadzias story could have continued

 

[STEPhon IT]

I liked ezri better.

I actually dislike the type of character trope that Jadzia is. the smartest, the best, good at eveything, everyone loves her, and all the guys want to have sex with her

I saw that creeping into the character and it was my main reason why I thought it was a terrible idea she was the pilot of the Defiant.

 

[Lynx]

I don't know. I've long suspected that the whole thing wasn't to dump Kes or not to dump Harry but was really to get rid of Lien. Most of the story and apocrypha of what happened over the years has come from the other actors, and they may not have been aware of everything that was going on.

But she started to [publicly] show signs of erratic behavior not long after she left the show. The long-held belief has been that her firing was a catalyst for her mental breakdown. No doubt this is true in part and what happened to her was certainly tragic, but usually, that kind of behavior doesn't just come out of nowhere. And I'm not even suggesting she even acted "crazy" during shooting. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn tomorrow that she could be really hard to deal with off set at times.

To bring it back around, I do think de Boer was an attempt to "replace" her. Ryan and Farrell were of similar body type. And Seven and [early] Jadzia of similar disposition. I think TPTB wanted to cover all the bases so to speak.

I think the mistake is not believing that they could be so misogynist that they'd be so intentionally deliberate and methodical in their casting choice. My point is that they absolutely were.

I mean we saw it again with Blaylock and Park. And all the upcoming Disco discussion has made me realize this shit goes all the way back to the beginning with Number One and Colt. Hell. the "juxtaposition" (for lack of a better term) was part of the fucking plot.

I never seen, heard or read anywhere that Lien was difficult to work with, difficult as a person or had any drug problems or other issues. On the contrary, all the cast members of Voyager seem to have only positive comments about her.

if she had been a "pain in the a**" or if she had had some problems, then it would have been out long before she was dumped or at least got out when she was dumped.

If you look a a series like "Beverly Hills 90210", it was common knowledge that Shannen Doherrty was a "pain in the a**" for both co-workers and producers, Charlie Sheen's behavior was well-known before he was dumped from "Two and a half men" and Gary Dourdan's problems became common knowledge when he was dumped from "CSI".

Lien may have been a shy, unsecure and introvert person back then and being fired after three years of good work for not being sexy enough for Mr. Berman's standards may have triggered what happened later. I think that this seem to be a plausible explanation.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Ezri was underutilized. That might seem like an unusual thing to say given how much screen time she had in a single season, but none of that screentime really ever amounted to anything. She was, conceptually speaking, way more interesting and had way more potential than Jadzia -- which is why it seemed like for a time everyone loved writing her in the litverse.

The problem is, once they had a success on Voyager (and other skiffy shows on the air at the time) TPTB realized what market value pixie dream girls had, and that's all she ever really was -- only wasting NdB's talent.

The irony here is I don't think there's been another woman actor (including Ryan and Blaylock) who was objectified more (by the fandom) than Farrell.

It would have been nice though to really see all that potential in her character come to fruition and grow over a few years. But that would have meant Farrell would have been out of a job before she left on her own because there was never any chance the show was going to last beyond seven years.

It's hilarious of some of the critics of Farrell, as if they were on the set looking at her struggle to play the part of Dax. They're giving the impression during her run on the series she was literally looking at CUE CARDS as she performed in every scene. From my view she was fantastic in the role in the 1st 3 seasons, but later had to share screen time with, an unnecessary character in my view, Worf. The Klingon crap was comedy hour on DS9; losing their cred every time seen on screen, and it's a complete betrayal of the character of Jadzia Dax when the producers ran out of ideas to progress the Trill culture. A marriage of the two characters should've been an embrace or a joining of both Trill and Klingon traditions but unfortunately we're deep in the bowels of the war nonsense and inventive thought was long gone from that tired series.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I never seen, heard or read anywhere that Lien was difficult to work with, difficult as a person or had any drug problems or other issues. On the contrary, all the cast members of Voyager seem to have only positive comments about her.

if she had been a "pain in the a**" or if she had had some problems, then it would have been out long before she was dumped or at least got out when she was dumped.

If you look a a series like "Beverly Hills 90210", it was common knowledge that Shannen Doherrty was a "pain in the a**" for both co-workers and producers, Charlie Sheen's behavior was well-known before he was dumped from "Two and a half men" and Gary Dourdan's problems became common knowledge when he was dumped from "CSI".

But this isn't a matter of being an asshole primadonna and set. Her problems [are] much more serious than that, and if the behavior was showing itself back then, then I'd like to think that those involved were decent enough human beings not to go spreading it around.

 

[johnjm22]

Ezri for sure.

I always found Jadzia Warrior Princess to be annoying.

 

[tomalak301]

It's hilarious of some of the critics of Farrell, as if they were on the set looking at her struggle to play the part of Dax. They're giving the impression during her run on the series she was literally looking at CUE CARDS as she performed in every scene. From my view she was fantastic in the role in the 1st 3 seasons, but later had to share screen time with, an unnecessary character in my view, Worf. The Klingon crap was comedy hour on DS9; losing their cred every time seen on screen, and it's a complete betrayal of the character of Jadzia Dax when the producers ran out of ideas to progress the Trill culture. A marriage of the two characters should've been an embrace or a joining of both Trill and Klingon traditions but unfortunately we're deep in the bowels of the war nonsense and inventive thought was long gone from that tired series.

Wait people thought Farrell was looking at cue cards? I didn't know that. One of my favorite Dax scenes was when she and Kira we're in the small shuttle in The Siege, and that was not a cue card type scene. I wish we had more of those witty type scenes with Jadzia. Worf kind of hindered her in the long run.

 

[Lynx]

But this isn't a matter of being an asshole primadonna and set. Her problems [are] much more serious than that, and if the behavior was showing itself back then, then I'd like to think that those involved were decent enough human beings not to go spreading it around.

Perhaps.
But all people are not decent people and I'm sure that if there had been anything out of order, even the most tiny detail, then it would have been out as soon as she was fired, if not even earlier.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

It's hilarious of some of the critics of Farrell, as if they were on the set looking at her struggle to play the part of Dax.

Who is doing this now? We've all had our opinions about Farrell's performance, based on stories, interviews, and indeed, the very episodes in which she performed. And no one has come to this thread with an axe to grind.

They're giving the impression during her run on the series she was literally looking at CUE CARDS as she performed in every scene.

This is an extremely gross exaggeration

From my view she was fantastic in the role in the 1st 3 seasons,

Great.

but later had to share screen time with, an unnecessary character in my view, Worf.

Farrell admits herself in interviews that she encouraged, indirectly, the writers to bring the two characters together.

The Klingon crap was comedy hour on DS9; losing their cred every time seen on screen, and it's a complete betrayal of the character of Jadzia Dax when the producers ran out of ideas to progress the Trill culture.

In interviews, Farrell admits that she preferred the "rogue-like" turn her character took, that Behr consulted with her before going forward with the change, and that it was easier to wrap her head around than the more cerebral Dax. On the other hand, Farrell herself says that she was not interested in exploring too deeply into Trill culture (beyond the character's own psyche). An flawed episode like Prodigal Daughter is simply unimaginable with Farrell.

A marriage of the two characters should've been an embrace or a joining of both Trill and Klingon traditions but unfortunately we're deep in the bowels of the war nonsense and inventive thought was long gone from that tired series.

A relationship that was more a hybrid would have been more appropriate, but Farrell herself that she lacked the maturity to represent her original character traits to their fullest. Not to mention, the romantic-comedy persona was more in tune with her existing acting strengths and the ones she would use in future roles.

 

[Sophie74656]

I never seen, heard or read anywhere that Lien was difficult to work with, difficult as a person or had any drug problems or other issues. On the contrary, all the cast members of Voyager seem to have only positive comments about her.

if she had been a "pain in the a**" or if she had had some problems, then it would have been out long before she was dumped or at least got out when she was dumped.

If you look a a series like "Beverly Hills 90210", it was common knowledge that Shannen Doherrty was a "pain in the a**" for both co-workers and producers, Charlie Sheen's behavior was well-known before he was dumped from "Two and a half men" and Gary Dourdan's problems became common knowledge when he was dumped from "CSI".

Lien may have been a shy, unsecure and introvert person back then and being fired after three years of good work for not being sexy enough for Mr. Berman's standards may have triggered what happened later. I think that this seem to be a plausible explanation.

Lol...you can sniff out any mention of Kes or Lien in any thread on any board

 

[Armus]

They should have killed Jadzia in season 3.

 

[eschaton]

Wait people thought Farrell was looking at cue cards? I didn't know that. One of my favorite Dax scenes was when she and Kira we're in the small shuttle in The Seige, and that was not a cue card type scene. I wish we had more of those witty type scenes with Jadzia. Worf kind of hindered her in the long run.

Farrell has been open about having a hard time remembering her lines in the first few years when they gave her lots of technobabble.

I have read before that she was the last casting decision for DS9 - with the intimation that they had someone else in mind for the role first. Does anyone know who that would be?

 

[STEPhon IT]

Wait people thought Farrell was looking at cue cards? I didn't know that. One of my favorite Dax scenes was when she and Kira we're in the small shuttle in The Seige, and that was not a cue card type scene. I wish we had more of those witty type scenes with Jadzia. Worf kind of hindered her in the long run.

A strong independent character turned into Worf's personal cheerleader. Glad the Ezri thing with Worf didn't last long, at least the producers had the dignity to leave that be. Oh, they decided to have her shack up with Bashir gah! Romantic relationships within the crew had to be the thing in the War seasons.

I did love Jadzia, and even Ezri's scenes with Sisko, the bond was always there, although I believe Dax' absence from season 7 would've been interesting than replacing her. I mean DS9 was cluttered with immaterial characters--since it's a war I thought more character should've been lost.

 

[tomalak301]

Farrell has been open about having a hard time remembering her lines in the first few years when they gave her lots of technobabble.

I have read before that she was the last casting decision for DS9 - with the intimation that they had someone else in mind for the role first. Does anyone know who that would be?

Well, I would think it is nearly impossible to remember lines of technobabble. I didn't envy the actors in that task, especially on Voyager.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Well, I would think it is nearly impossible to remember lines of technobabble. I didn't envy the actors in that task, especially on Voyager.

True. From what I saw I didn't see any hesitations or struggle when she played the part, I think by her accomplishing such treknobabble lines for the seasons she did made her a better actor than what her critics thought of her.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

The Klingon crap was comedy hour on DS9; losing their cred every time seen on screen, and it's a complete betrayal of the character of Jadzia Dax when the producers ran out of ideas to progress the Trill culture. A marriage of the two characters should've been an embrace or a joining of both Trill and Klingon traditions but unfortunately we're deep in the bowels of the war nonsense and inventive thought was long gone from that tired series.

I don't think it should've been, really. The whole point of the joining experience is to experience lots of different ways of life. Male and Female, soldier and doctor and scientist, Trill and Klingon, etc. The Trill part is already baked into her memories, so why would she insist on making a combined Trill ceremony when she could instead have the unique experience of a full-on Klingon wedding, which she's never had before? Going all-in on your partner's traditions seems to me like exactly what one should expect from a joined Trill.