Spock News
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They literally did a remake of a TOS episode for their second episode.
Yeah, ‘cause they were trying to convince people this show without Kirk and Spock was still “Star Trek.” What’s Discovery’s excuse?
Sorry, no, just no.
- De Forrest Kelly as a 140+ year old Admiral McCoy surveying medical layout (and travelling to the far edge of explored Federation space to do it in the pilot (Encounter At Farpoint).
- The First regular episode (The Naked Now) takes an entire original TOS script (TOS - The Naked Time) and just changed the names and a few details; and of course takes time to name drop Kirk and his ship in the episode.
- (And yes I understand it's also form production cost reasons); but using EVERY TOS feature film model they can find and claim that Starships actually can stay in service for about a century. They made one new Federation ship model (The kitbashed U.S.S. Stargazer - Constellation Class); but we didn't get any new Federation ship designs until TNG S3 "Yeasterday's Enterprise" and no new Klingon designs until TNG S4 (it had all been D-7 Katanga TOS era film models or BoP models.)
- Also during TNG S1 the set dressers made a point of having extra TOS era ship models (Like the Type F Galileo Shuttlecraft) and other TOS era props in the background for briefing Room scenes and some other shots.
- Then in TNG S2 - they bring in the female character clone of Dr. Leonard McCoy - namely Dr. Katherine Pulaski; an "old country doctor" (yes, she said it) who was afraid to use the Transporter. they even tried to have her verbally spar with Data (ala the Spock/McCoy good natured adversarial rivalry); but it didn't work because the TNG writers gave Data a naivety Spock never had; so when Pulaski torn into him, it came across more like abuse so they dropped it quick.
So yeah, please don't try to say "Yet even TNG leaned less on TOS than Discovey has..." as that's a load of crap. TNG relied HERAVILY on TOS references for 2+ seasons. It finally found it's own voice about midway into TNG S3 (Even though they did bring Sarek on for S3 sweeps and hadn Spock appear in TNG S5 - more as a cross promotion for STVI:TUC which was releasing in theaters the same week as the "Unification I & II" episodes aired in first run syndication; and they brought in James Doohan as "Scotty" for TNG s6 sweeps too.)
ST: D starts 10 years prior to the start of events we've seen in TOS - so OF COURSE they're going to tie into the TOS TV series era more directly (ST
is now about 8 years away from the start of the TOS era.) But honestly it leaned less on TOS directly in it's first season of 15 episodes than TNG did over it's first season of 26; and which TNG continued to do in it's second season of 22 episodes as described above as there are more examples from TNG S2 I didn't site as effectively stealing/transplanting a major character (aka a female 'Dr. McCoy') is a big enough 'lean' in and of itself. 
)
False equivalency because you know as well as I that with a main character directly related to (well adopted) the family of a character from TOS - using that standard, it's all 15.
And in bringing up the 'Mirror Universe' angle, how is it not original that we had an actual person from the said Mirror Universe cross over and replace/masquerade successfully as his prime universe counterpart? (Oh, and while TNG didn't go to the MU - DS9 did many times.)
But, (unlike TNG) ST: D din't take and just remake a full script of TOS (The Naked Now); or just take a full TOS character, give it a sex change an plant in in the cast for am full season (again Dr, McCoy = Dr. Pulaski), so again, going by that TNG has 23 episodes leaning heavily on TOS.
Sorry, no, just no.
- De Forrest Kelly as a 140+ year old Admiral McCoy surveying medical layout (and travelling to the far edge of explored Federation space to do it in the pilot (Encounter At Farpoint).
- The First regular episode (The Naked Now) takes an entire original TOS script (TOS - The Naked Time) and just changed the names and a few details; and of course takes time to name drop Kirk and his ship in the episode.
- (And yes I understand it's also form production cost reasons); but using EVERY TOS feature film model they can find and claim that Starships actually can stay in service for about a century. They made one new Federation ship model (The kitbashed U.S.S. Stargazer - Constellation Class); but we didn't get any new Federation ship designs until TNG S3 "Yeasterday's Enterprise" and no new Klingon designs until TNG S4 (it had all been D-7 Katanga TOS era film models or BoP models.)
- Also during TNG S1 the set dressers made a point of having extra TOS era ship models (Like the Type F Galileo Shuttlecraft) and other TOS era props in the background for briefing Room scenes and some other shots.
- Then in TNG S2 - they bring in the female character clone of Dr. Leonard McCoy - namely Dr. Katherine Pulaski; an "old country doctor" (yes, she said it) who was afraid to use the Transporter. they even tried to have her verbally spar with Data (ala the Spock/McCoy good natured adversarial rivalry); but it didn't work because the TNG writers gave Data a naivety Spock never had; so when Pulaski torn into him, it came across more like abuse so they dropped it quick.
So yeah, please don't try to say "Yet even TNG leaned less on TOS than Discovey has..." as that's a load of crap. TNG relied HERAVILY on TOS references for 2+ seasons. It finally found it's own voice about midway into TNG S3 (Even though they did bring Sarek on for S3 sweeps and hadn Spock appear in TNG S5 - more as a cross promotion for STVI:TUC which was releasing in theaters the same week as the "Unification I & II" episodes aired in first run syndication; and they brought in James Doohan as "Scotty" for TNG s6 sweeps too.)
ST: D starts 10 years prior to the start of events we've seen in TOS - so OF COURSE they're going to tie into the TOS TV series era more directly (ST
It changed all the details.
The admiral is never referred to by name on screen, the plot in no way depends on that scene, and it’s just a cameo.
Set dressing is not the same as Sareks ya daddy.
TNG was the first ever new trek. It had to show it was the same universe. It actively avoided overt links to TOS for much of its run, which made Sarek a big deal when it happened, the other guest stars were just there as events. It literally actively avoided going back to the TOS well so much, Roddenberry had to be persuaded into having Worf there. Not a single plot in all of TNG depends on events in TOS or characters in TOS for its genesis.
You already covered why there were no new ships for TNG, but I would also add that the Stargazer as seen on screen is not a kitbash. That’s just called following a design ethic after they got money and found they wouldn’t be using a constitution class.
In short, no, it really didn’t depend as much on TOS as DSC depends on TOS and all the other shows.
Pulaski shares characteristics with McCoy, but not all of them, and none of her stories are his. She’s not his granddaughter or something.
How original is the MU story?
You answered yourself. DS9 did it loads of time, almost every time with an MU character masquerading as prime or vice versa.
It’s not a false equivalency at all to note that Discovery spent literally half its first season on the Klingons and the other half on the Mirror Universe. That’s not to say Discovery added absolutely nothing new to those things, but I would say TNG made a much more good-faith effort to stand on its own than Discovery did, even though TNG desperately needed to establish its Star Trek bonafides.
Pulaski was derivative and lame, admittedly, and a lot of TNG's first year was poor. So Discovery is punching its way to the bottom if these are the defenses.
A big-budget show in the era of prestige TV (being made three decades after TNG) really ought to be fighting in a higher weight class.
Oh please...give me a break:
Again give me a break. TNG wasn't the first 'new' Star Trek - up to that point you'd had Star Trek The Animated series 1973-75; (which did cause the first Star Trek fan schism), and four feature films (which again caused fan turmoil among a segment of Star Trek fandom)
TNG was a redo of Star Trek Phase II (which became ST:TMP) - and it 'borrowed' a number of characters from there- and one character was taken from a failed GR/Gene Coon collaberative TV series pilot "The Questor Tapes":
William Riker = Captain Decker from ST:TMP
Deanna Troi = Lt. Ilya from ST:TMP
Data = The Questor Android (from The Questor Tapes)
^^^
It's a 'kitbash' in that they did use parts from a number of commercially available Star Trek model kits to create it for the show.
^^^
No, it depended ENTIRELY on the popularity of TOS at the time to get Paramount to decide to attempt it in the first place - the popularity and box office performance of STIV:TVH is what finally sold Paramount Execs on the idea. BTW - Paramount hedged theior bets too in that IF the TNG series failed, they had plans to fold it into the current TOS syndication package and basically sell local stations the right to rebroadcast TOS S1-S1 and TNG S1 going forward.
I concur here. I mean, TNG's first two seasons had a grand total of three Klingon-related stories (one of which was a Worf love interest). We saw the Romulans twice (they were actually used a lot more in the latest seasons of TNG). Early TNG attempted to build up the Ferengi a bit as a new antagonist, but mostly kept to "planet of the week" stories having little to do with TOS. Unless you count Q being a lame Trelane expy initially.
Of course, they actually wanted Shatner to reprise his role as Kirk for Too Short a Season. The episode was shite without him, but I'm glad he turned them down.
So.... One scene in the TNG pilot to show audiences it's the same universe as TOS - in an episode that apart from that one scene completely stands on it's own narratively.... compared to an entire season of DIS that's essentially just a big "remember this? 'member this? YOu liked that, right? Here it is again! 'memebr this?"
Do you really want to make that point...? Because... you know....
To clarify, this was the first new Star Trek that was not a continuation. I assumed this was clear. The examples you mention are all continuations...characters, actors, stories in some cases.
Again. Yes. How relevant precisely is the admiral to the plot? Is he named? I got fed up watching low quality video, but I doubt my memory of the episode or the stuff I have read about the show since are mistaken. He is intentionally not referred to by name. He’s an Easter egg. A cameo.
Phase II didn’t happen. Plain and simple. Yes TNG borrowed from that unmade series, particularly during writers strikes, but it never got made. The other bits you mention are not Trek, and Roddenberry is simply using his own material that never got anywhere. The closest you get is Ilia/Decker for Riker/Troi...but it’s completely different aside from some homophones and small detail. For a start, TMP had its ending to that affair.
The stargazer was built. You could not film Ertl kits for the show use as foreground ships. The Picard desk model was initially a kitbash, but the filming model? Nah.
Entirely dependent? Only insofar as you say...Trek was making money, execs like money. TNG was it’s own thing very very quickly, and it’s documented how much they avoided going back to TOS for their first few years. Either way, that’s not an accusation I level at DSC, all Star Trek series are dependent on the popularity of the franchise. It’s not the same thing as having very last plot in your first series depend on already shown characters and set-ups.
I like DSC, as I have said, but it’s not exactly an original piece of work.
I think that was a major struggle for TNG early on. It was a little easier for the later shows in the 90s because they were, by declaration, part of the world and style that TNG had evolved for itself.
ST: D starts 10 years prior to the start of events we've seen in TOS - so OF COURSE they're going to tie into the TOS TV series era more directly (ST
So what innovations did Discovery bring us? Spore drives and tardigrades? I'm all for new ideas, but they better be good ones.
The Spore Drive was a good idea. How they used it was poor.
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